just combine the Cruiser lines
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Fair
So, Naval STARTED under the idea that it was all small boats. They weren’t even considering destroyers. …and here we are.
Small Boat game (Coastal) is the best, most dynamic game. It’s the game I loved.
We’re not even talking about them. We’re just talking about Ships.
If the game isn’t dynamic… if the game is just big slow boats pounding on one another… how is it any different than it already is? You’re just talking about HOW we deploy big ships. I don’t see how the game play is ultimately any different.
Naval is boring precisely because gameplay is about manning a big slow moving gun platform and… now… not even having to aim. yeah… you’d HAVE to make the gameplay about ANYTHING else because there ISN’T any Game to Play.
…but hell yeah. Sure. CVs at RTS units. Like it was in WoWs before they screwed it up. Sure. I’d be down for that.
False - they included many DD’s and even a couple of cruisers right from the start.
https://old-wiki.warthunder.com/Update_1.83_"Masters_of_the_Sea"
False. The destroyers and light cruises were added later. Slowly. Because the game was not designed for them. The initial statement by developers was that the combat would be too slow and boring if done at realistic speeds. I’ve been there since the earliest beta.
There was only the player bases desperate infatuation with large ships, probably perpetuated by world of warships, that has created this issue of bloat of tonnage and boring combat.
Just asking because of curiosity.
Did they just go back to WOWS after that?
I must correct you there Italy only had CVs in modern times today and the GZ was never finished and put into the fleet so speaking of the part of WW2 era both nations also Soviet Union had no CVs. Just wanted to correct this statement entirely here.
I thought there was conversion work done on the vessels spraviero and aquila?
By gajin’s rules as long as ship had its keel laid down or it had ship specific parts it is eligible so the Graf zeppelin and Wesser are fine (Possibly also Jade iirc)
Who? The players or the developers? I think the developers are trying to tap into what makes WoWS popular. But the problem is that wow was designed for big ships. War thunder Naval was originally designed for small boats and now they’re trying to make big ships work.
The problem is is that war thunder aims for more realism than wows does. Wows is way more arcady. One of the huge benefits War thunder has over the other games is combined arms. The integration of air Land and Sea is unparalleled. Even if players complain about CAS. That’s actually one of the huge advantages where thunder has. As a potential create diversity of play.
Right now the developers are leaning into the wrong things. There’s nothing dynamic or exciting about large ship combat currently. You just hover your mouse over the other boat and squeeze the trigger.
One of the best things they ever did was add float planes to CCs. That increased your options for dynamic play in large ships. It let you counter small boat capture points, and actually take part and play when you were 10 km out.
Right now a lot of the argument seems to be, " it’s not fair that your favorite boat can kill my favorite boat faster than my favorite bode can kill your favorite boat!"
And I don’t think that’s addressing the core issue.
The gory issue is that there’s nothing exciting or dynamic about current large ship combat.
Figuring out how to give large ships more roles than sitting in the water trading shots is going to be key.
Ngl I honestly wouldn’t mind if bluewater took more from wows but I’m not sure how it would translate to coastal.
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Yeah they only started it, both were never finished as well as the GZ and for my kinda understanding is that Gaijin always removes Vehicles of every kind that are to fictional or were never finished/ had a prototype like like they did with Tiger 10,5 cm and Panther II and also with the R2Y2 line in Japan.
So my conclusion is that they would never add something that finctionary then this to the game. At least not for Germany, Italy and Japan. USSR maybe.
I think that would cause Copyright problems with Wargaming so that is probably the reason why they can’t
I mean world of warships is really fun! I loved world of warships. But it’s a different game.
One death and waiting for your team was agony. I hated that about world of warships. War thunder excels there by not leaving friends in the queue waiting for the match to end.
When wows changed aircraft carriers from an RTS unit into a arcade airplane experience thingy… that was a big reason why I walked away. The the carrier experience was very unique and gave a different option to players. It was a huge mistake to change that.
There’s a lot of money and time put into Naval units and models right now. I’d be surprised if they scrapped a whole element of it.
Sadly, coastal is the most exciting gameplay. Or it was before they screwed up the aim system in the last major update.
But players know large ships because of wow’s popularity and so that’s what a lot of players are going to gravitate towards. What they already know.
The developers challenge is in figuring out how these units come together to provide unique and engaging gameplay.
Right now their focus is on Blue water ships and it’s going in the totally wrong direction. It’s not going to address any issue. They’re going for the cheap fast, immediate engagement short-term solution. And I don’t think it has legs. It’s not going to take them where they want to go.
No one wants to play a boring game. And ships is definitely boring right now.
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I mean the Conte de Cavour, Amagi, Kronshtadt, Sovetsky Soyuz, Z15 and Gneisenau either use unfinished refits or were never completed.
This isn’t also mentioning vehicles like the ostwind 2 which has shaky at best evidence for existing.
The German tanks and r2y2s were removed because it was either inaccurate or no progress was ever made in construction (although the Cocelian and R2y2 V1 might have enough ground to justify returning)
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You played WoWs as well before they changed this part of CVs ?
Was also one of my reasons to walk away from them.
They robbed the skill that was required for CVs from them in my eyes.
I also see that they walk into short term solutions right now and it will probably cost the whole Naval Gameplay in the future. sure I would love a much faster game moder and more interesting things like the adding of catapult seaplanes for certain ships. The truth is sadly that Naval battles at these time periodes where boring as long not a massive air fleet of planes where included in raiding the Naval forces on both sides.
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I did! I loved managing the stealth of my carrier while directing two flights of planes. Then creating cross hatches to destroy ships who couldn’t escape. I still remember being chased by cruisers and being the last player in the map and winning because of how I directed my squadrons. So good!
And you’re absolutely correct. Large ship combat was boring. That’s why the developers had no intention of bringing that to war thunder. It was all plywood motorboats at first. A couple of Russian barges with t34 turrets. I think it was their desperation to capture wow’s that allowed ships to creep in.
To be fair, destroyers have the speed and agility to provide that exciting, dynamic gameplay. At least now they do. And some cruisers are pretty good too.
But the new aim mechanic destroys any advantage that mobility had provided.
You really have to dodge pretty frantically to avoid getting hit. It’s just not fun.
It’s not fun shooting at people. And it’s not fun dodging shots.
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Yeah I agree on that, the problem is imagine they remove said vessels. (and refit the Geneissenau with the 273mm)
what would be left for these nations?
Italy has still a small amount of BBs to choose from
Germany had a large number of BBs from the WWI to choose from
Japan was great in sea battles and would still have a lot Ships to exchange the Amagi
The only Nation that would loose its ground would be Ussr they never really build Battleships or huge fleets. They were not a nation of Seamen or a Colonial Empire so they would just die in this process.
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Well gajin officially said that the ships follow different rules than the other branches so no removal likely.
Besides, I’m not convinced they are too worried about naval disparities because they passed the H-class for consideration and confirmed the G3, Lion and A150 classes are all eligible additions.
If carriers were ever added as playable, I believe the criteria should be dropped to allow ships which had construction authorized
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Yeah I remeber my good days with my japenese Carriers there. It was nerver the same after the change they made it basically a no skill required CV gameplay.
I agree as well DDs would bring some action but the engagement with Cruisers and BBs as well is just slowing the process. Aiming and dodging are both very hard to understand of its function more luck and will of the game instead of your own skill is what brings you somehow forward.
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Yeah I agree with that if they count that the ship where actually layed down and started to be build, we will face a lot of crazy things and monster likely ships in upcoming updates.
The sad thing is that this all wont change a bit, as long as they wont change mechanics and gameplay and make it somehow interresting for new players. I see the problem that Gaijin wont listen to the users unless its already too late again. They did already so in the past and Players had to enforce changes. So yeah all Ideas I have read so far in here have potential to make a major improvement if done correctly. The question is will they listen or do they what they always do and hold their line.
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