Maybe Japan should get that one captured Hellcat they flew for a bit as well, would be funny to see the stats on that. Or maybe give USA the N1K1-J they captured to see if it drops in BR.
I am sorting by Kills Per Spawn in almost every screenshot I post, as it is far more relevant.
They are, but Gaijin doesn’t take those into account in a vacuum ever since the CL-13 situation that forced them to change.
Which is also why we haven’t had the same situation as the CL-13 ever since.
I doubt they have actually changed, and now simply take more time to let the stats settle before making a change for vehicles that aren’t super complained about.
I mean, that was obviously a trolly point from Alvis that was just meant to be argumentative. Win state does have a discrete and known effect on rewards, both SL and RP. This is not in question.
Over one night’s games or even a few night’s games with a vehicle, how many wins you get is completely meaningless in terms of measuring ability, agreed. But as the number of coin flips goes up, the random factor goes down and War Thunder games are no different. Assuming a coin flip outcome without you, you can safely assume a win rate of 55% on 100 games means you yourself made the marginal difference between the win and the loss one game in twenty. That’s not nothing. It’s nice to make a difference.
Win rate is more useful (outside Air RB) for evaluating players, not vehicles though, as outside of the single-vehicle spawn mode, it’s really the lineup that won, not the vehicle (and service records don’t and can’t differentiate, every vehicle played gets the win point). But in Air RB it’s a more useful stat than in other modes.
Big asterisk there since one of the lowest winrate planes at 3.7 is the P-51C. At and around 6.0, pretty much the entire german presence is way down on winrate due to Ju288 spam, despite said 288 and Ta 152H being very strong.
Well that just gets to the point that has been raised so many that people who play bombers in RB aren’t really playing for the team win, they’re playing for themselves (caveats about different BRs and different-quality bombers where that is more or less true notwithstanding).
The other caveat to note here is that to some degree “air RB stats” in Statshark are going to be “contaminated” a little here by ground RB (and a little bit of NRB) performance, same as the in-game service records are (because that’s all Statshark has to work with). Just needs to be considered when we talk, particularly about Air RB win rates.
So whilst the US/UK/French/CHN P-47s kills in Ground RB a hell of more or less helpless players in tanks (and faces less enemy aircraft) the missing payloads of the German premium versions enforce a usage as fighter in Air RB - and the P-47 is not as bad as most people assume.
I use the 3.7 UK version and the 4.7 US version quite often in Air RB and they are quite good aircraft - even admitting that they require a high level of patience & discipline whilst they offer just a rather boring play style.
The P-51, Corsair & 109 story (“Japan beats them all”) is logical due to many reasons:
JP benefits strongly from not being a Big 3 nation - that means a hell of players play JP after they played another nation; they utilize their experience gained elsewere and benefit from that.
The JP P-51 (and the not mentioned French clone) & JP F4U premium aircraft have zero payload options - so whilst the other P-51 Cs and the F4Us (including the FAA version) were used with bombs the JP versions were mainly used in A2A combat.
If players are enforced to learn ACM to progress it is logical that they produce better results in A2A combat.
The downranking from Rank III to II made the US P-51 C version totally irrelevant for Rank III daily/special and BP tasks - so way less experienced US players use them.
The total absence of any viable bomber (regarding risk/benefit ratio) at lower tiers prevents JP teams of having this grinder spam (=fighters with bombs or plain base bombers) which highly affects WRs.
Anybody who has ever played around 3.0/3.3 for German teams is fully aware of the systemic disadvantage there - a hell of Ground RB players spade their twin engine 110s & 410s there and the MM tends to create axis vs allied vs mostly single engine fighter allies teams - so it is no wonder that the German stats of the 109 E-7 & E4 (which performs similar/identical to the JP 109) are way worse.
Regarding this whole thread:
Arguing that the N1K2 needs a lower BR is imho comprehensible based on pure plane performance. But regarding the in-game performance it looks rather like a joke - especially if the A7M2 or Ki-84 Ko are used as reference points regarding performance.
Everybody with a certain level of common sense & experience is fully aware of that flying against them is a real pain and the A7M2 & the Ki-84 Ko need a 5.7 BR to get have the honor and pleasure to fight BIs at 6.7.
Both planes are way too strong and are easy going planes at 5.3. I stopped flying both as i had to take way too great risks to get a kill before the games were over - as my JP dominated teams stomped enemy teams like there is no tomorrow. Even the Yak-3Us are manageable…
Notice that the N1K2 has a much smaller number of games played as the non Japanese planes in the list, as if they were played by a niche community of players. The fact that the CHINESE La-9 has nearly 4 times as much matches is quite telling wonder how it compares to USA and Soviet 6.0’s?
Of course, but in Ground battles USA tends to do pretty well, at WW2 BRs they’re spoiled for choice of very good vehicles. The T14 especially is one of the best tanks at its BR and it’s what, 4.7? Right in the middle of all these vehicles.
Hence why my comparison used neither. I don’t think I’ve ever seen the N1K1-J be called OP or too strong, yet in everything but a small top speed disadvantage and less 20mm ammo, it comes out on top.
A7M2 and Ki-84 Ko could move up to 5.7 (and I’d put $5 on it happening not very far in the future) but I consider it “payback” for all the overtiered stuff.
Which should be 7.3, and that’s being quite charitable.
Most played USA fighter is the F2G with ~130k games; most played soviet is La-9 with ~142k.
Most played japanese fighter is the J7W with ~72k, the N1K2s have 18k and 13k each.
All stats for last month and only for 6.0 fighters.
EDIT:
I forgot I wanted to also reply to this.
If the teams were too strong then they’d have very high winrates (which they do) but relatively low Kill Per Spawn ratios - contrasted with much higher Kill Per Death ratios. But this isn’t quite the case, all the statshark screenshots I have posted were sorted by Kills Per Spawn and they do very well, and Kills Per Death aren’t that much higher. Statshark isn’t perfect by any means but when you look at tens of thousands of games for each plane, they start to become statistically significant.
Also, Yak-3Us both attract some of the WORST players, and yet it’s still in the top few at 5.7 stats-wise.
This is why it actually helps to not completely ignore the AB performance (not that you’re doing that). Statshark does NOT count ground AB results against the plane but against the tank of the pilot (again, same as the in-game service record… AB naval results do count on the AB air service record but naval is a very small number of games). So if you looked at a plane that had a high RB stat, but a low AB stat, that could be the influence of ground RB inflating the results above true performance, and vice versa. In theory, a plane that was hot junk in ground RB but good in air RB plane v plane would see superior relative performance in AB (because that’s all air mode battles, basically). Just a subtlety when trying to make sense of service record-based stats (in-game or Statshark).
Frankly I know nothing from Arcade and it’s been years since I touched that mode. Whatever happens in Arcade stays in Arcade lol. Some of the BRs from there are very amusing though.
Wouldn’t the arcade boost to engine performance completely upend comparability?
Even SB vs RB comparisons can be a stretch due to the instructor in RB making planes perform much worse than they should in certain contexts, while making certain others super accessible despite being a nightmare for newbies.
Yep! They’re two different aircraft in many ways. Not saying AB stats really count for figuring out RB BRs, just if you see some RB performance stat that seems wonky, it’s something possibly to look at to try to figure out what’s actually going on.
I played an Arcade match with one of my sons… it was bonkers… had to do a mental reset “OK, so that guy 2 full kilometers below me is a threat because he can zoom climb to (and past) my plane while maintaining full control for a shot.”
I had some good times and some good games as a U.S. guy - but the lack of differentiation in flight performance coupled with the fact that having more crews is a HUGE advantage sort of soured me on the mode. Funnily, I don’t know if it has changed lately, but my average rewards per match were slightly better in Arcade.
My apologies for being completely off topic there… appreciate the discourse generally, really educational for a new player (even if I am artificially new).
