It doesn’t have to be too high, just 2,000 meters, to give yourself space to defend
It has nothing to do with defending. If im in a plane with only IR missiles, climbing is a stupid thing to do. But you are now kinda forced to climb. In a plane that dont have SARH/ARH to fight back.
Like i said, im fine with them lowering multipathing height. But it still has to be able to be done reliably. If im at or below the height of trees and it still doesnt work reliably, then there is something wrong.
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This is what 60 meters looks like. In the other photo i posted im 100% flying lower to the ground then this, yet multipathing still didnt work. Something isnt right with it.
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Positioning is key here
If you’ve “just” came up over a hill, in a way where both of you were completely unaware of each-other before then odds are, that hill is tall enough to where you wouldn’t be able to get down into multipath in time anyways if 27ER is just 5km away… Also I’d like to reiterate, Multipathing still works, it’s just a smaller margin now. It’s still easy over flat terrain, exception being if it’s launched from straight above, in which case you definitely shouldn’t have put your self in that situation. People before this update frequently flew as low as they possibly could, they didn’t ‘specifically’ hang around that 40 meter range that is now gone.
Also, Netz is 12.3, it suffers in uptiers, and kicks ass in downtiers, just like before. Old aircraft not being “meta” anymore is nothing new.
Kind of funny how you said that, because with 100m, the BVR oriented fighters were FORCED to engage WVR with you, as you could simply approach them with complete invulnerability on the deck. With this change, WVR fighters are still great at WVR, and now, BVR fighters can actually be effective BVR. I’m sorry that you can’t shut of your brain and point towards an enemy and expect to merge with zero complications anymore.
This was the entire point. We wanted it to be less reliable, to promote gameplay that isn’t flying in a straight line invulnerable towards enemies…
If you could still multipath “effectively” then there would be no point in changing it at all, I don’t know why you’re surprised here.
If a plane is not effective, maybe it should go down in BR, instead of completely wrecking BVR in it’s entirety to accommodate that plane?
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Multipathing really kicks in around 6-10 meters below whatever MP is set to, before you’d be safe at ~90-94m, now ~50-54m.
Multipathing is still working, I’ve seen the code, the multiplier is still the same. I’ve still been able to do it. But there are still other reasons a missile might hit, I’ve gone over this in another thread if you’re interested. Unless you’re hit with splash damage, not the missile Proxy’ing you, then you would’ve been hit the exact same with 100m MP in the same conditions.
(When I say you’d be “safe” below those altitudes, I’m not accounting for those alternative reasons you might get hit anyways, since it applies for both 50m and 100m)
You can say positioning is key all you want, you cant know where every threat is when its 16v16, its just too many, especially on maps with terrain (which i prefer, so you can actually get closer to ppl in cover).
If im sticking low ish and the guy crest a hill 5 km in front of me, i could 100% still multipath it. The netz was just an example, it could be a J7E, a Mig-21 BIS, could be a J35XS facing a Mig-23MLD. Any IR only plane at the higher tiers which faces the PD radar planes.
But thats the thing though. Multipathing doesnt work as advertised. It should be 60 meters. I can be a decent bit below 60 meters and still get hit no issue. The small trees are at a height of what? 40 meters max? I have gotten hit on golan 3 times today while im in between the trees. I cant tell you if its the maps not modelled correctly or what, but something isnt right.
Might feel better if they moved it to 70 meters to account for some of this shit. Im not saying i should be able to multipath all the fucking time, but when i specifically chose to stay on the flat part of a map and im flying at 50 meters and i still get hit, there is something wrong.
You were never FORCED to engage in close quarters IRCCM spam. If you stick to altitude the enemy has to come to you. His Aim9M aint gonna climb to 8 km from the deck. Was it the meta? oh 100% it was.
Flying on the deck is just as brainless as flying 90 degrees to the right and press chaff, or do a 180 and go cold if you ask me, neither is hard to do. Its a game not a simulator, its not supposed to be gigabrain hard, it never has been. Just like i dont want chaff to be a dud 50% of the time, i dont want multipathing to not work if im below the max height. Thats my point.
Like i said, im fine with them lowering the multipath height so you actually have to fly very low for it to work, which isnt always possible if the terrain is uneven. But if im on even terrain and sticking to fucking tree tops, it should work. Thats my point.
Golan heights as an example is quite flat, but there is still plenty of spots on the maps with major dips in terrain. We could also maybe remove those boring flat as fuck maps that are uninteresting to play on anyway. Thats fine by me, i want terrain.
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Yeah i know its a little below the stated height. But if the trees on maps are like 40 meters tall and im below the tree tops, it should work. Yet it doesnt, not always (not talking splash dmg, im talking directly in front of me, in a headon).
Im not saying its not possible to do at all anymore, when you are flying above water it works just fine. But it feels like on some maps the terrain is not being calculated correctly for multipathing.
No surprise really average wt player really love fly low and dogfight and seem to forget how dangerous advanced missile really are
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16v16 is it’s own issue, both in IRCCM meta and now ARH meta. There’s no reason to use MP as a scapegoat here. Of course you can’t know where every threat is, neither can the enemy team.
If mig29 is flying low, then current MP will be enough, given terrain isn’t too rough. Missiles are more deadly when they come from very high angles, it’s besides the point, you’re talking about a super specific situation here, I don’t know the exact parameters, we can go back and forth all day…
These lower tiers see MUCH weaker and fewer radar missiles than top-tier, only exception being F14 which I think should go up one step in BR. They also added code specifically so they’d be able to adjust MP height for each individual missile this patch, this code would’ve been completely unnecessary if they just wanted to lower everything to 60m. I’m personally expecting them to tune each individual missile sometime.
No, you just don’t understand what multipathing is. Multipathing =/= ‘completely safe below this altitude’, never was. Not with 100m, nor with 60m. Multipathing moves the radar cue below your target, around 6-10m below the value and your radar cue is on the ground. (I’ve demonstrated this in a video on my MP thread) All MP does is move the radar-cue that the missile is flying towards, there’s still reasons why you could come in between said missile and radar cue, BOTH with 100m multipath and 60m multipath. 100m was so egregious however, that it was FAR too consistent, required almost no skill and terrain hardly mattered unless you were in the mountains.
Again, I’ve gone over why a missile might hit anyways, it’s in another MP thread if you’re interested. Could be anything from IOG, you accelerating into missile path, the terrain around you proxy’ing the missile and so on. Entire point of lowering it was to make it less consistent, you should have to think twice on maps with uneven terrain, like Golan. Point was not to force people to fly lower, rather the opposite and devs agree. 100m Multipath was initially set to protect helicopters, it’s not appropriate for top-tier air.
Except, the enemy on the deck could shoot SARH up towards you, whilst you couldn’t shoot SARH down at him. People needed to “consent” to BVR by not abusing multipath.
I don’t consider Golan very flat, there’s rolling hills everywhere, your AGL is constantly shifting.
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But why do you want less consistency? Do you want chaff to have a failure to fire too? like a 30-50%? I dont understand why you people want more situations where there is literally nothing you can do. Unspotted plane with a R27ER within 5-7 km of you and he gets a lock on you before you spot him? There is literally 0 chance you are not dying here unless the missile decides to fuck up.
Do you want all players to be forced to play the game super slow and the matches to last 20 minutes where you just look at your radar for enemies and the only viable option to play (if you care about not dying ofc) is super safe BVR where you go for safe Fox 3 shots untill one of you run out of missiles and then RTB? Thats what it sounds like you want. If multipathing is staying this unreliable there is literally so many situations you are now just dead in. Nothing you can do.
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hang on hang on hang on.
What?
Right, so if you havent spotted an aircraft THAT close then either the game is bugging out or you are blind and deserve to be killed.
Also RWR? If you are ignoring your RWR, you also deserve to be killed at top tier.
If you have allowed an enemy to get within firing easy firing range, without noticing them and then totally ignored your RWR and failed to spot the missile coming at you. Then you SHOULD die.
The fact you are expecting to survive playing really really badly and making a million mistakes is exactly why MP is so bad.
Yes. longer and slower paced ARB matches would be far more fun than the 30 melee in the middle of the map we’ve had at top tier for teh past year or 2.
Yes, you should be looking at your radar. If you arent then you are playing badly. If you dont want that kind of gameplay. I suggest going and playing sub 10.3 aircraft.
I jumped into ARB in my unspaded FA2 yesterday, just to see what its like and you jsut have to be smart and not super defensive. But i had 75% of my AMRAAMs defeated by MP still.
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Not every single map in this game is Sinai. There are plenty of spots where they can crest a hill with no warning. Neither of us knows the other person is there.
Then they wouldnt have fired at you nor can they fire through the hillside. Its called terrain masking, when you both pop up and over, its the first to react to the situation, wins. Having an immunity shield in that situation isnt fun for the other guy who has positioned themselves correctly. Spotted you first. got a lock and fired.
All this argument is about is that i said MULTIPLE time im fine with them lowering the multipath ceiling. It shouldnt be 100 meters. 60-70 is fine, on the basis that it actually fucking works there. Which it doesnt.
4 times now today where im litereally so low im in between trees on golan on a completely flat part of the map, and i still get a direct impact from a radar missile.
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so you want more situations based on RNG (if neither of us knows the other is there, its RNG), where you cant do anything. Make chaff not work 50% of the time too then
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It does. There is only 1 issue. They need to add a radar altimeter to the HUD. in sim, we have that and its easy to exploit still.
Had this happen to me as well the other day:
but thats my entire point. That is too high for it to work. Its inconsistent as shit. And making it even more inconsistent by lowering the MP height isnt good for gameplay either
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And if the only viable gameplay option you want to have is only looking at radar and staying super far and away doing BVR only and relying on notching and chaff or going cold as the only answer, there is literally Air Sim for that. Thats where that gameplay if home.
And another thing. 2 dev servers to test fox 3 missiles before they get added, Yet shit like this gets added with no testing and no announcement about it, just all of a sudden. Could atleast have made a poll about what the playerbase wanted.
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the multipathing changes were already tested in the dev server, the fuck are you on about?
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And thats what I usually play. But ARB and ASB seem to inherit each others settings. MP is set to 60m in ARB and so it must also be set ot 60m in ASB. Most of the sim community probably wants MP removed entirely.
Was tested and announced on the dev server. Was 50m as well. So been nerfed again since then. The problem with the tests usually, is a small sample size, also most are still learning how to deal with ARH and CMs barely work. Its impossible to actually judge what is and isnt working currently. Its too unfinished.
Its clear MP can still be used to defeat all missiles. Ive had my missile defeated that way and I have defeated missiles that way. Its just not as easy as you actually have to fly very low. I hoping eventually that they’ll totally replace MP with other features, like better chaff modeling and ECM.