Multi path height

[SneedSellsFeed]

No?
In fact, the exact opposite happened.

He was told to “Go practice, obtain some knowledge and work on flight skill”.

@Boitatáツ

fox 3 and skill in the same text LOL

@filthy_za

Go practice, obtain some knowledge and work on flight skill.

is this a joke or what? 0.72 kd, negative on multiple top-tiers “go practice”, you don’t even know what you’re talking about

And then an argument ensued from that.
If you’re an extremely poor player that only manages 0.7 K/D on average, that means that your opinion will be formed based on that.

@Boitatáツ said it himself when the same thing was brought up as what you’re doing right now:

@Boitatáツ

Again, I don’t care what you do or don’t do. My commitment is to War Thunder; I play War Thunder and this is a War Thunder forum. I don’t care about your other games. An argument in a debate doesn’t need to be simple or extremely complex, it just needs to be true. I didn’t discredit you in any way, you discredited yourself by believing in something without value

@Boitatáツ

I comment, a lot actually, but my biggest problem is when bad players who don’t make an effort to play want to complain about something they don’t even understand the real condition of because they don’t have the experience or skill for it.

Because up until then everything could be managed with skill. After the multi-pathing update, even an 8 IQ zombie can get 2 kills by flying straight and spamming Fox3.

This is the War Thunder forum. If you’re telling people to get good and giving out “advice”, when you yourself have a 0.7 K/D - it is a moral obligation for that person to be called out, as his advice is either faulty or he is not a practitioner of what he preaches.

Boitata’s global K/D is 2. Filthy_za’s global K/D is 0.8. Filthy_za is advocating for Fox-3 buffs and is talking about how we just need to go “practice” and “obtain some knowledge” while Boitata is saying that he (filthy_za) only wants these buffs to Fox-3s and nerfs to multipathing because it allows worse players to perform artificially better.

Boitata’s beliefs are also backed up by other, more experienced players with better stats. While the ones being happy with the changes are people with regularly worse stats. You can see a very obvious trend from this that would not be visible, were player stats hidden. And it gives a great insight. And it also empowers his argument with publicly available information.

You can use in-game stats for various arguments about the game, on the game’s forum. It is a basic player right to know who he’s talking to, and if the experience he is talking about matches his actual experience based on public data.

[RunaDacino]

Then, again, say that his behaviour is uncalled for and demand that he focus on the topic at hand rather than yourself go even lower.

If someone makes an outrageous claim, demand evidence in form of videos or screenshots or even just replay links if you don’t want to bother with uploading stuff to youtube. You shouldn’t steep to such low levels as to look up the other person and attack them based on things that are not part of the thread.

If their claim has nothing to do with the thread, tell them to get the hell back on topic. In this case, both parties have completely rotted this thread with their personal attacks, and it was a mistake of me to focus purely on Boitata when both were disgusting in their personal insults.

I concede this.

[SneedSellsFeed]

@RunaDacino

You shouldn’t steep to such low levels as to look up the other person and attack them based on things that are not part of the thread.

Again - you keep trying to spin this as some kind of personal attack. Do you just live in your own little world?

It is NOT an attack on him as a person. It is an attack on his argument, and his in-game stats.
You keep repeating this despite being told multiple times that it is wrong. Why?

• People are complaining about FOX-3 missiles/multipathing and saying that only bad players benefit.
• filthy_za says “Go practice, obtain some knowledge and work on flight skill.”
• His stats are shown to be far below average, making his statement paradoxical, and clearly written with a different intent.

You are literally advocating for manipulative misinformation to be normalized on the forums by trying to force this belief that checking someone’s stats IN-GAME, on the GAME FORUM is a “personal attack”.

You’re welcome to check my stats at any time, and if you find something that doesn’t line up with what I’ve been saying, I will gladly try to explain the discrepancy if I can. People are entitled to know, and to be informed who they’re talking to, and what that player has done in the game, before listening to his opinion surrounding the game.

[RunaDacino]

We have fundamentally different perspectives on how debate should be conducted, and it is unlikely we will arrive at an agreement. I am, have been and will always be a strong advocated for anonymous debates to ensure only the arguments presented matter, and whatever data is provided to support them. (Even without stats - the advantage of people being unable to recognize their friends and idols, thus avoiding bandwagoning/herd mentality alone should speak volumes).

In my eyes, presented data and content should be all that matters in any discussion that’s not between friends or buddies over personal matters.

[Bonrath]

First off, I’ve read the whole argument about this, just to be sure.

@RunaDacino

In my eyes, presented data and content should be all that matters in any discussion that’s not between friends or buddies over personal matters.

Yes indeed but while you were talking about data you absolutely forgot the quality of it and the deviations for analysis of it.
(I’m not buddies or know anyone of the guys you were arguing with but this argument will make me lean onto their side.)
The quality of data in this case comes from the experience the players have. You yourself agreed in the EULA that your gameplay data shall be collected ( well, time to unistall huh lmao).
EVEN WITHOUT them first seeing your statcard and by your responses alone in the argument they saw thru your BS.
PS: you mentioned your previous account, calling this a mere fresh restart and how you actually know the game more than we think.
Id love to know the name of that account, if nothing else to see the number of battles on it.
INB4 you forgor oopsie haha xddd
This isn’t an offense before you jump onto that train, I am merely collecting quality data and even offering mine openly ( you’re welcome to check my statcard in game or even duel me)))))

[RunaDacino]

@Bonrath

You yourself agreed in the EULA that your gameplay data shall be collected ( well, time to unistall huh lmao).

On EULA

EU law overrides EULAs, so in event Gaijin’s data gathering bothers me, I could always invoke GDPR. I’ve had people invoke “Right to be Forgotten” for amateur/hobbyist game dev servers where staff had to nuke their entire discord history, clear their playtime/logs from the server box where doing so would not impede moderation.

On Account Age and “Quality of Data”

As for accounts. I played ~2013 or so, got to like tier 3 and quit for a while. Played again in 2015, quit again and started playing a few weeks ago once more after faffing about in KSP “Kerbinside Remastered GAP” and deciding I wanna fly a WW2 plane around, not just a concorde recreation. And yes, I have no idea as it was over a decade ago.

I’ve sucked in the past at combat aviation, I am ~average at best these days. Mostly by virtue of most of my RB teams LARPing as lawmowers (part of the motivation to move into SB - less furballs, less getting outnumbered because of only person climbing. It has so far been significantly more enjoyable), moving what was once counted as suck into average by virtue of “sideclimbs.” In SB, I’m learning as I have no experience with such.

I do consider myself decent at non-combat aviation sims, but it’s irrelevant and mostly a matter of “I crash-landed and disintegrated so many times I built muscle memory for this bad concorde replica.” Here’s a sci-fi/near-future plane for you to analyze New Spaceplane. This one for supposedly landing on Minmus - Album on Imgur and my botched landing where I forgot to arm my drag-chute and rapidly scrambled to do so and subsequently veered off the runway, tailstriking in the process: https://youtu.be/ax614f7_rGE?si=QFcJniBzbMlBFQlP&t=2204

Behold, my biggest claim to fame in air sims is crashing a plane by veering off the runway. The power of ego!

On using stat-cards for “quality of data”

Again, demand the other party to record the issue they’re complaining about and upload it to youtube or reddit or some other video sharing site. If they refuse, screenshots. If they again refuse, then demand a step-by-step, idiot-proof guide to reproduce it.

You’ll find requesting people to put in an effort into their wild claims works far better for filtering bullshit than personal attacks and ego-contests.

In my amateur dev experience (dealing with SS13 weirdos), most of the idiotic complaining/hottakes disappear when you tell people to cut it out in general and take their claims to actual feedback or post their report on github. Or tell them to stop posting bugreports in feedback, or close their “I fell over” bugreport where each entry point is “I fell over” (turns out they were abusing a bug which we fixed and got beaten up in pvp…) Occasionally, someone does the respectable and presents a sensible take. Most of the time, sweet silence follows.

[Bonrath]

@RunaDacino

Occasionally, someone does the respectable and presents a sensible take. Most of the time, sweet silence follows.

Or, what’s more applicable in this case, sweet silence follows after a series of such bad takes ( yours, to return us to the original issue of the argument since we’ve swayed off topic, multipath height btw) that the smart ones just don’t bother anymore.
And the same shall be done on my end. Go use the first point you made and request a complete data wipe of your account, maybe uninstall at the same time lol

[RunaDacino]

I do not know if you’d observed this thread, but it has already been pages of inane, kindergarten level back and forth over completely irrelevant subjects (two people’s ego) before I showed up after reporting it, and seeing no action taken.

[Bonrath]

They have an ego because, given their responses and, as you call it, intrusion into their privacy ive done ( checking their statcards myself, checking yours would obviously be a crime) I can only assume they’re experienced players. ( an ego earned in my eyes)
Going in with dumb arguments can provoke some people. This is what you’ve dug up on yourself as someone who also has zero clue about the game’s implementation of multipathing. Sorry but it’s up to you to dig yourself out, either by bowing down ( which, if you’re not an egomaniac shouldn’t be too hard), seeking compromise or leaving. What am I saying you’ve obviously experience in this as a game dev, looking back at this argument lmao

[RunaDacino]

I’ve made my apologies for only targetting one party when both were at fault for utterly ruining this thread (one guy telling the other to l2p, the other retorting by attacking the other rather than demanding a return to the topic at hand).

I also apologize for the presently non-existing individuals who would wish to use this thread constructively rather than as a battlefield to show which of them is a better player. What matters is the game improving, and people’s experience with it.

I only showed up in this thread initially because I saw complaints about lack of proper tutorials and such, and have felt it appropriate to echo that statement as indeed - I remember tutorials being better back in the day while presently they’re… outright broken at times.

I looked back, because I’ve been notified there was activity since and was disappointed because the thread initially seemed far more amiciable than what it devolved into.

This community ought be more like KSP’s or Sailwind’s. All are sim communities, we ought focus on improving the game and the play experience rather than fighting.-.

[Its Filthy]

KD does not translate knowledge and skill.

If someone really cared that much for the game there would have been fight over in-game changes that came about last year.

For once top tier air is not worked that much around game balancing and everyone has got the same opportunity in one way or another. This in itself is a good thing.
But for the rest and calling people on a current stat while not taking into account every single factor is one of the biggest errors in decision making and arguments in this forum in the first place.

For me personally it is the first update in a long time where actual knowledge comes to play along with flight positioning. For the first time in a long time you have the option of going either low or high and not following a mindless, mundane “go low” strat.

Next step that will make me happy and make me care a little bit more is when the ghost radar object bug reports get looked at, when ground effect bug reports get looked and when incorrect rudder input on mkb bug reports get looked at. With that ground strategy and tactical play being brought back instead of everything being funneled into a cap brawl.

There is a difference in care and right now, my care is my own sanity and understanding that this is a game and to a large extent, “realistic” flight does not work and that WT is simply just a “arcade sim” no matter how you look at it.

Again, I love this game for what it is : A game that takes a semi realistic approach in vehicle design & application. For everything else, like worrying about having a high KD and having each battle a “sweat fest” there is other things to enjoy that in - like DCS.

Now go cry some more over stat cards and not being able to simply just fly low to evade a missile.

EDIT : For the times we do care about having a KD

[SneedSellsFeed]

@filthy_za

For me personally it is the first update in a long time where actual knowledge comes to play along with flight positioning. For the first time in a long time you have the option of going either low or high and not following a mindless, mundane “go low” strat.

The exact opposite is coming into play with multipathing changes, and you yourself are proof that K/D does indeed translate into knowledge and skill. Because missile nerfs can only facilitate higher skill gameplay. And you’ve utterly failed at that.

Also, I will quote this post before you delete the image (because I would delete it out of shame):

@filthy_za

EDIT : For the times we do care about having a KD

“For the times we do care about having a KD”
And you post… a single match where you got 12 kills in GRB… And 4 deaths… (3 K/D, for that single match… In ground RB…)

You do realize that a single match means nothing? I would love to see your global K/D in whatever vehicle that was in the screenshot. I can guarantee that it’s below 2, maybe not even 1. I’ve had plenty of games with 10+ kills and no deaths. My friend that just started playing had a single game where he got 14 kills and 1 death. It’s literally one match.

Additionally, it’s PRETTY OBVIOUS that when you say this:

@filthy_za

For me personally it is the first update in a long time where actual knowledge comes to play along with flight positioning. For the first time in a long time you have the option of going either low or high and not following a mindless, mundane “go low” strat.

It’s pretty obvious that you’re talking complete nonsense. Because you GLOBALLY do not manage good stats at all. Look at your stats in Rank 1-5 planes:

Jesus. Christ. Even when playing literal props (where it’s basically entirely skill, no missiles, no anything - ONLY POSITIONING, and ONLY KNOWLEDGE) - you’re at… an average of 0.3 K/D? Oh My God… That is one of the worst stat cards I’ve ever seen.

And your stats “miraculously” increased when you started playing high rank planes:

Which have missiles… The things you can launch without thinking and get kills, with far less care for “positioning” and “knowledge”, because they will guide themselves for you. Mind you - your K/D is still below 1 and utterly incorrigible, but at least its ~0.8. (In the literal best planes in the entire game)

Literally ANYONE with even a crumb of sanity and awareness will be able to tell what’s going on here, immediately. And it’s so obvious.

Generally, people with high K/Ds in props also have high K/Ds in planes, because there’s a very clear thing that you are missing - and you’re actually trying to twist the fact that multipathing nerfs allow people who are missing this very important thing to perform, and claim as if it was actually “skill” all along.

Of course - with a 0.8 K/D, I wouldn’t say there’s much skill, but I would suppose this is an incredible result for you, because you did so much worse playing the planes before. For obvious reasons.

And it’s not surprising that your early jets have stats comparable to your prop planes, too. Again - gun based fighters before missiles, that require far more knowledge and positioning.

Your K/D in the F-84G is 26 deaths and 5 kills. 0.19. A plane that I found extremely effective, and one I also used in GRB. A plane in which I have 244 air kills and 95 deaths, ~2.5 K/D in the air. You utterly failed at utilizing the strengths of the vehicle and gave up on it. A clear case of you not being able to play a vehicle that is entirely based around the “positioning” you kept bringing up.

Your K/D in the MiG-15bis. A very good plane at 8.7 then, that got brought down to 8.3 recently. Very strong turning, poor roll, lower top speed, slow shells with low ammo. A plane very dependent on “positioning” and “knowledge”. You have 29 deaths and 15 kills in it. 0.5 K/D.

[DerGrafVonZahl]

@SneedSellsFeed

The exact opposite is coming into play with multipathing changes, and you yourself are proof that K/D does indeed translate into knowledge and skill. Because missile nerfs can only facilitate higher skill gameplay. And you’ve utterly failed at that.

Higher skill gameplay?

Dude you are a RB player andj have the nerve to ask for higher skill gameplay in a simulator thread?

Are you for real? Sim is the higher skill gameplay, instead of crying go play sim or leave a sim thread. These threads are not meant for RB issues.

Go away or play sim.

Why are you two even in the sim section with your RB scrubbery?

[SneedSellsFeed]

@DerGrafVonZahl

Higher skill gameplay?

Dude you are a RB player andj have the nerve to ask for higher skill gameplay in a simulator thread?

Are you for real? Sim is the higher skill gameplay, instead of crying go play sim or leave a sim thread. These threads are not meant for RB issues.

Go away or play sim.

Why are you two even in the sim section with your RB scrubbery?

Firstly - Sim is not higher skill gameplay. 90% of Sim players at the higher tiers are bombers farming RP and SL with absolutely no thoughts whatsoever. Bot gameplay at best. Missile and radar changes can only make it easier. They literally had to keep nerfing gains in Sim because Sim was the easy-mode way to grind the air tree, and it was heavily abused.

Second - I’m talking to him, that responded to me.

He doesn’t play Sim Air - so I can’t even mention it:

Also - multipathing affects both top tier ARB and Sim. It doesn’t matter if you merely put a “Simulator Battle” label on the thread when it’s something mainly affecting Air RB. RB will be mentioned.

[DerGrafVonZahl]

@SneedSellsFeed

Firstly - Sim is not higher skill gameplay. 90% of Sim players at the higher tiers are bombers farming RP and SL with absolutely no thoughts whatsoever.

And the rest that plays fighters is orders of magnitude higher in skill than anything RB… So it cancels out and it is higher skill.

@SneedSellsFeed

He doesn’t play Sim Air

Neither do you, so you might both get lost as you should.

[DerGrafVonZahl]

@SneedSellsFeed

Why do you play RB more, and HAVE BETTER STATS in Sim for the SAME PLANE IN ALMOST EVERY COMPARISON?

I have much more time in sin compared to RB. Recently i am playing RB while watching YT since i have small kids and not the time for SB.

What does it matter?

Why are you making an SB thread about RB. Are you that arrogant that everything is about what you play?

@SneedSellsFeed

Almost as if… It DOESN’T take more skill. Because you literally do worse playing RB…

Because i play RB while watching movies… You only get good in things you put effort into… I would think that is obvious. I am also much better in AB than RB. Because i value AB and SB, i don’t value RB, so i don’t put effort into it. Your logic is flawed and stupid.

@SneedSellsFeed

Maybe it’s because Sim Air literally takes less skill because you’re far more prone to only looking at your radar and firing missiles away? I wonder what your stance is on multipathing in Sim…

What would you know about sim? You don’t play sim.

My stance is realism trumps everything in sim. Easy.

And now answer me why did you think to post about RB in a SB thread? Are you that arrogant that everything is about you?

Do you have mental problems to accept when something isn’t about you?

[SneedSellsFeed]

@DerGrafVonZahl

Because i play RB while watching movies… You only get good in things you put effort into… I would think that is obvious

All I needed to hear.
Thank you for your response.

[DerGrafVonZahl]

@SneedSellsFeed

All I needed to hear.
Thank you for your response.

What does that have to do with anything? Yes i put kore effort inti SB, why is that surprising?

You are still littering this thread with posts unrelated to SB. You still shouldn’t post your issues with RB in a thread about SB, it’s off topic.

Make a multipathing thread in the RB subsection, if the issue is important to you in RB.

[SneedSellsFeed]

You keep repeating this spiel about SB and writing multiple paragraphs of the same thing over and over about how I’m talking about RB (actual littering) while not mentioning multipathing or flight dynamics whatsoever - things that affect both modes.

Simply put - you’re a parody.

[DerGrafVonZahl]

@SneedSellsFeed

while not mentioning multipathing or flight dynamics whatsoever - things that affect both modes.

But how do you know how it affects SB? Not the same like RB does.

The entire SB mission design changes so much in that regard.

Also you ignore the sim mindset. Multipath is more realistic this way, therefore it fits SB better by default. Since that is the point if SB.

Thinking that the RB mindset applies is just stupid.

Before with the 100m multipathing the sim meta was very different from the RB Meta due to the smokeless aim9m and the lack if third person view. So if you knew this you would be able to assume that SB is different after the update as well. I mean hell due to mission design alone… Well how would you onow?

You are a blind man trying to talk about color