It used to be worse when it didn’t have the turret basket modelled, now it can be disabled more easily. This thing shows up in cqc range is a menace lol the muzzle flashes just masks the hitbox and it only has to hit your barrel once then you shoot your orange colored cannon to transform it into a banana peel.
lol
how about no?
4 Likes
MBTs easily deal with both at their current BRs.
APFSDS for Begleitpanzer would make it obviously superior to 2S38 though.
Wrong, but admirably consistent.
Well, thats an exaggeration. And a big one.
Honestly, i wouldn’t mind, if it would recieve APFSDS.
Or keep the normal one in 9.3 and one with APFSDS at 10.7
2 Likes
Two 57mm guns with APFSDS, one has ATGMs as backup.
Both are on platforms of equal mobility, and similar speeds.
Both are of equally useless armor and contain enough ammo for guaranteed detonation.
The only difference that would remain for rating the vehicles would be the ATGMs.
Why not 12.3? Let’s not waste time on trivialities
Lol
this post was altered due to flag system abuse
It’s not a 12.0 vehicle.
It’s definitely not a 10.3, you could make the argument that it should be the same BR as the Puma, which would then mean the Begel should be 10.3
Maybe not 10.3 but I could definitely see it move to 9.7, as I feel like 9.3 is a bit low for a vehicle with such strong all-round capabilities.
1 Like
What is this suggestion?
The 2S38 should NOT be at 11.0 but rather the 2S38 should be 10.7 to compensate for the fact that at 11.0 you get F&F IFVs such as the KF41 and VJTF PUMA. I would say at 10.3 the 2S38 is significantly stronger than the PUMA and Swedish lights but at 11.0 it would definitely be weaker than the more survivable IFVs with F&F ATGMs and medium caliber autocannons. 10.7 would definitely be more fair considering it’d be on the level with Vilkas and Freccia.
As for the Begleitpanzer at 9.3 currently it should be 10.0 max considering at 10.0 you get the M3 Bradley with APFSDS and Tow-2a/Tow-2b, ESS, Smoke grenades and IRST track. The Begleitpanzer as it is should be at 9.7 considering it is far inferior to any of the 10.0 IFVs but if it did receive the APFSDS that can be used on 57mm Bofors, a 10.0 placement wouldn’t be ridiculous.
Cr: Leclerc, Q. (2025) I made a comparison sheet for NATO IFVs at Ranks 5-8 to see how Gaijin decides BR . Available at: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1llmptu/i_made_a_comparison_sheet_for_nato_ifvs_at_ranks/ . Accessed: 09/07/2025.
1 Like
True, having something even if its an option for very rare circumstances is always better than not having it. It’s the same with the 2s38 and its aa capabilities and some people claiming that those shouldnt be considered when assessing its BR placement. Like, why the f not??? Being versatile always makes a vehicle better than just excelling at one thing. tell that to the maus, the jagdtiger and a lot of other tanks that, while being very strong holding a line and having very strong frontal armor but struggle tremendously reacting to flanks, evading cas and in general pushing objectives or controlling more parts of a map than just one line. Should those be balanced regarding just their main guns and their frontal armor?
Every mbt at high and top tier is usually a sitting duck (the abrams a bit less but apparently a lot of abrams players also somehow neglect that fact - only mbt with proxy fuze heat) to any cas, but the 2s38 and some selected few others like the bagel and the strv 9040s at least have a chance to defend vs the close range cas. While being even more dangerous vs helis.
But since the missile guidance changes that turned all (or most) atgms from insane lob around corners and over hills nukes to basicall useless in case of the tows (whether thats good, bad or more realistic i dont wanna judge) the TOWs have never been the selling point of the bagel. They are atm quite literally a last stand weapon when youre absolutely pinned down and ppl decide they will just start yoloing you, that is basically useless in every other scenario maybe unless to people that play the bagel as their main and favorite vehile. For 99% of the people playing the bagel the missiles dont add or add very little to its effectiveness.
Now, the atgms on the BMD-4 or the BMP-3 on the other hand…
I’m not quite sure you are aware in what sorry and useless state the PUMA VJTF is in at the moment. easily one of the most useless light tanks in game. Period. Call yourself lucky if of the 4 Spikes that you can carry you get one kill or even one serious crit. after that, good luck with that abysmal shotgun of a main gun that struggles with anything that has some sort of armor.
Oh and try not to get hit in the turret, because despite that being aknowledged as a critical bug that needs adressing by the developers like a year ago, any hit there that explodes your ammo (and trust me most hits there do) it will blow off both your tracks somehow, making you a sitting duck that has to repair for 30 seconds to reload the gun to be able to shoot unprecise pebbles at enemies again to annoy them. GL
1 Like
A tank being generally bugged is not a reason to nerf/buff other vehicles according to it.
The fact is that looking at the Spikes of which you get 4, they are F&F with tandem charges and 900mm of penetration, you also get APFSDS rounds with a max penetration value of 121mm which are effective against light vehicles and weaker armored vehicles such as the Merkava.
I will concede that the APFSDS does struggle against MBTs however, the Spikes are intended to be your AT capability, to judge an IFV based on the penetration of its autocannon and not the additional features it gets would be tantamount to saying the Bradley and BMP-2M/Russian IFVs are weak because their autocannons cannot frontally penetrate MBTs.
The PUMA VJTF has a number of features that make it reasonable to be placed at 11.0 whereas the 2S38 falls behind, they both have an AA round HE-VT vs AHEAD and the IRST tracking to go alongst with it. The PUMA’s spikes are insanely strong against Heli’s being able to kill them at ranges beyond 5km even if they play close to a hill/mountain. The PUMA gets APS and EOAPS, better optics, composite armor alongst ERA and a stronger engine allowing for a greater acceleration as well as a higher max top speed.
When is the Begleitpanzer 57 a premium verhicle because you said it cost 60 bucks?
The guy isn’t saying it costs 60 bucks it is saying it has a mobility similar to the BMD-4M which costs 60 bucks
I mean none of the nato ifv’s can penetrate and kill every top tier mbt frontally with it’s gun…2s38 should go up, but it won’t it’ll stay where it is because reasons…
1 Like
It would be weaker than tanks with smaller guns and less survivable hit boxes?
Not sure about that.