Except that 2 out of those 3 are WW2 artillery pieces and at its core a 155mm howitzer is WW2 tech (see T30 which uses the same shell as M109).
The stuff you add in such as mobility, autoloaders, laser rangefinders etc are all reflected in higher BRs.
PzH 2000 is not the same BR as the M109 and the M109 is not the same BR as the M44 and the M44 is not the same BR as the Sturmpanzer II
If you think I’m biased, see my play time in any of these vehicles (next to none).
Exactly. They aren’t either. The matchmaking system is broken in this area.
So broken that from a German perspective you are matched with a number of Turm IIIs against a number of T 55 AM 1s.
The last time I looked at it was from the perspective of the T 55 AM 1.
Of my 68 games with it, I had 10 with full uptier. 5 +0.6 and 10 + 0.3. 38 full downtier. Mostly against Germans.
If I play against Germans, my team wins 90% of the time. And with a style of play that could be described as careless at best. You are most likely to lose against British teams who have previously shaken up the team with their 7.7 Fox.
I totally agree with your logic here, but the PzH2000 and VIDAR gets so much firepower, mobility and survivability that they need to move up in BR
Think about it, if the G6 at 6.7 suddenly got it’s reload rate reduced from 19 seconds to 5 second, LRF, roof mounted MG (HMG for VIDAR), increased armor, tracks instead of wheels with neutral steering and almost triple the mobility, better shell velocity, gen 2 thermals (VIDAR), would an increase of 1.0 or 1.3 BR be enough?
I mean does the M44 having better mobility and a better shell velocity warrant it being 3 BR higher than the Sturmpanzer? Or the M109 being more survivable than the M44 warrant it being 2 BR higher?
Overall I think SPGs are weirdly balanced and the G6 is a good example. I think for the PzH 2000 a better comparison would be the M109 where the PzH is faster, better gun handling, better reload, laser rangefinder and better shell for 1.7 higher BR.
The space between the M109 and PzH is the same space between the T-72B and Leopard 2A7V for example
What firepower? Their firepower is quite literally at 1.0.
As for G6 vs VIDAR. Out of all of those: Mobility is not triple, it is improved of course.
Velocity for HE is not an objective benefit.
MG doesn’t matter.
So out of all of that, the reload which is 7.3 seconds, mobility, rangefinder, and thermals are the effective differences.
So let’s find something with same-ammo with similar differences.
JaPzK: 8.7 with thermals, rangefinder, mobility, and 4 second reload. 400mm pen 60 degrees.
Object 120: No thermals, no rangefinder, worse mobility, 10 second reload. 404mm pen at 60 degrees… 8.0.
A 0.7 BR difference between Object 120 and JaPzK, and the light tank can scout too.
G6 BTW has turret traverse, among the fastest of the artillery pieces.
I mean does the M44 having better mobility and a better shell velocity warrant it being 3 BR higher than the Sturmpanzer? Or the M109 being more survivable than the M44 warrant it being 2 BR higher?
Since you didn’t answer yes or no to my question i will answer to yours. Yes. And it should be applied to PzH2000 and VIDAR as well
I think for the PzH 2000 a better comparison would be the M109 where the PzH is faster, better gun handling, better reload, laser rangefinder and better shell for 1.7 higher BR.
Yes and 1.7 is not enough
What firepower? Their firepower is quite literally at 1.0.
MG doesn’t matter.
The gentleman did not just say this, his skill is called into question
JaPzK: 8.7 with thermals, rangefinder, mobility, and 6 second reload. 400mm pen 60 degrees.
Object 120: No thermals, no rangefinder, worse mobility, 10 second reload. 404mm pen at 60 degrees… 8.0.
I cannot comment on these tanks since they are rare and never stood out. But what i can comment on is gaijin’s lack of balancing with other vehicles does not mean PzH2000 and VIDAR are not op
G6 BTW has turret traverse, among the fastest of the artillery pieces.
Why don’t you mention that it’s for a limited arc and it’s doesn’t have an extremely fast hull traverse like our 2 big boys? And it’s irrelevant anyway
6.0s / 5.0s reload is much better than 19s.
Relatively high-velocity + LRF also makes large-calibre HE much more deadly, as one of the biggest issue with those types of rounds are their large bullet drop, making it hard to hit things (especially at range).
So their firepower / raw effectiveness has been improved by quite a bit over 1.0 HE launchers and 6.7 HE launchers.
I’d say it does, especially against light vehicles (like the FOX), which are hard to deal with due to most SPH’s lack of turret traverse speed / stabilizer. They also help with breaking down fences / walls… because HE detonates on them.
Maybe on road, but definitely not in other forms of terrain.
JaPzK has 4s reload, not 6s.
I think Object 120 should be 7.7, but could stay at 8.0 if 8.0-9.3 gets decompressed.
In fact, I think the reload is 4 seconds and its apfsds is 350mm
pzh2000 one hits everything from any distance. plus it has a laser rangefinder!
Skilled players are skilled, water makes things wet.
Go play the howitzers for yourself.
once you figure out how stupid overpressure is they are braindead easy to play. Like a M109 or G6 can just tickle the side of a panther and they pop. shoot the lower front of a track on any tank with a 155 and they insta die even when they shouldn’t, works on large calibre HESH too
I’ve been playing the howitzers for a while, aiming for ammo with AP rounds is objectively easier.
The difference is when a howitzer misses you, it’s not noticed cause it just sounds like any other missed shot.
shooting the middle of a target and relying on HE filler is objectively easier yes but that doesn’t mean tracking or copola shooting everything isn’t either
…Sooo, realistically, what do you think happens when a 155mm High Explosive shell hits a tank?
Bonk.
big headache for crew but anything well armoured after 1945 isn’t going to see armour breached.
A good chunk of things after 1945 would still at bare minimum suffer massive amounts of spall, plus. Well. Overpressure.
HE from artillery is very deadly to tanks and even to modern tanks. They just usually have bad optics and are lightly armored and thus arent used against tanks
that was a panzer 4 but it gets the point across. massive HE shells are unfair facing such tanks
the artillery machines will die from your HE shells too
they say it was a panther
