Many of those don’t even have 17.3 HP/t (TO-55, AuF1, …) and definitely don’t have 60/60km/h specified.
Most of those you mentioned don’t have a LRF, just like most 8.0s.
Yes, my Type 99 record shows that it can perform pretty okay at 7.7 / 8.3 while being at 7.3.
Mind you, that vehicle has worse mobility, reload speed and lacks LRF or smoke grenades.
And it wouldn’t change anything for the German lineups.
Pushing the PZH from one non-competitive BR lineup into the next non-competitive one is simply unnecessary.
The PZH even comes with me in 10.7 and reliably destroys his opponents on selected maps and I’m happy about the +7500 SL reward.
This is certainly possible on 12.7, but the large amount of reactive armor could throw a spanner in the works.
So the correct BR is probably 10.0?
This game doesn’t revolve around Germany, buddy.
There are many 6.7 lineups in the game that definitely don’t need to see this thing in full uptiers.
Calling 8.0 Germany to be non-competitive is funny.
Play these BR lineups and face reality.
I keep track of the matchmaking of my games.
8.0 no longer experiences downtiers. You play against 8.7 in 80% of your games.
8.0 Germany has a fine lineup on paper and only plays against LRF and stabilized tanks.
And on the other hand, use an unstabilized Leo without LRF and only with HEATFS, which then has to compete against LRF tanks with APDS FS in a sniper duel. It is not usable in close combat due to the non-existent armor.
And of course the two martens and the two rocket tanks.
Of course, apart from the rocket launcher, no vehicle is allowed to drive while it fires its only usable weapon.
Sorry. You simply have no idea what it’s like to play with the two lineups right now.
You have them after all. Play it again!
Same for other nations as well, so all of them are non-competitive ?
APDS is better anyways.
Sorry but I do.
SU-152 and Brummbar can be part of the front line, M44, Sholef, 15cm slG [despite its reload]
Listen, this thread is about PzH2000 and VIDAR, on the sideline, you derailed it enough
Nobody here is complaining about SU-152, M44, 15cm sIG etc being op, while personally i hate them and i believe cold war/modern artillery should have never been added, i think they are relatively balanced (except Pzh2000 and VIDAR ofc)
You have plenty of game time and you should know that armor thick enough to stop .50 cal and small autocannons and thin enough to not activate the fuse on bigger shells is meta and this is exactly what these 2 vehicles have. They are in a league of their own and cannot be compared to other SPGs in terms of survivability and firepower (short reload)
Not only that but you have no experience in howitzers and little experience defeating them.
Most people here have hundreds of hours in and defeating howitzers.
Lol, lmao even
Just shoot the turret; the bags in the back make it an easy kill.
Bags?
Propellant bags?
Mostly empty if you don’t carry a full load, which you shouldn’t anyways because you get ammo box.
Well, auto-cannons are your friend then.
XM800T is probably the best counter for that thing.
Or fox
(Counter ‘rat’ for rat)
Except that 2 out of those 3 are WW2 artillery pieces and at its core a 155mm howitzer is WW2 tech (see T30 which uses the same shell as M109).
The stuff you add in such as mobility, autoloaders, laser rangefinders etc are all reflected in higher BRs.
PzH 2000 is not the same BR as the M109 and the M109 is not the same BR as the M44 and the M44 is not the same BR as the Sturmpanzer II
If you think I’m biased, see my play time in any of these vehicles (next to none).
Exactly. They aren’t either. The matchmaking system is broken in this area.
So broken that from a German perspective you are matched with a number of Turm IIIs against a number of T 55 AM 1s.
The last time I looked at it was from the perspective of the T 55 AM 1.
Of my 68 games with it, I had 10 with full uptier. 5 +0.6 and 10 + 0.3. 38 full downtier. Mostly against Germans.
If I play against Germans, my team wins 90% of the time. And with a style of play that could be described as careless at best. You are most likely to lose against British teams who have previously shaken up the team with their 7.7 Fox.
I totally agree with your logic here, but the PzH2000 and VIDAR gets so much firepower, mobility and survivability that they need to move up in BR
Think about it, if the G6 at 6.7 suddenly got it’s reload rate reduced from 19 seconds to 5 second, LRF, roof mounted MG (HMG for VIDAR), increased armor, tracks instead of wheels with neutral steering and almost triple the mobility, better shell velocity, gen 2 thermals (VIDAR), would an increase of 1.0 or 1.3 BR be enough?
I mean does the M44 having better mobility and a better shell velocity warrant it being 3 BR higher than the Sturmpanzer? Or the M109 being more survivable than the M44 warrant it being 2 BR higher?
Overall I think SPGs are weirdly balanced and the G6 is a good example. I think for the PzH 2000 a better comparison would be the M109 where the PzH is faster, better gun handling, better reload, laser rangefinder and better shell for 1.7 higher BR.
The space between the M109 and PzH is the same space between the T-72B and Leopard 2A7V for example
What firepower? Their firepower is quite literally at 1.0.
As for G6 vs VIDAR. Out of all of those: Mobility is not triple, it is improved of course.
Velocity for HE is not an objective benefit.
MG doesn’t matter.
So out of all of that, the reload which is 7.3 seconds, mobility, rangefinder, and thermals are the effective differences.
So let’s find something with same-ammo with similar differences.
JaPzK: 8.7 with thermals, rangefinder, mobility, and 4 second reload. 400mm pen 60 degrees.
Object 120: No thermals, no rangefinder, worse mobility, 10 second reload. 404mm pen at 60 degrees… 8.0.
A 0.7 BR difference between Object 120 and JaPzK, and the light tank can scout too.
G6 BTW has turret traverse, among the fastest of the artillery pieces.
I mean does the M44 having better mobility and a better shell velocity warrant it being 3 BR higher than the Sturmpanzer? Or the M109 being more survivable than the M44 warrant it being 2 BR higher?
Since you didn’t answer yes or no to my question i will answer to yours. Yes. And it should be applied to PzH2000 and VIDAR as well
I think for the PzH 2000 a better comparison would be the M109 where the PzH is faster, better gun handling, better reload, laser rangefinder and better shell for 1.7 higher BR.
Yes and 1.7 is not enough
What firepower? Their firepower is quite literally at 1.0.
MG doesn’t matter.
The gentleman did not just say this, his skill is called into question
JaPzK: 8.7 with thermals, rangefinder, mobility, and 6 second reload. 400mm pen 60 degrees.
Object 120: No thermals, no rangefinder, worse mobility, 10 second reload. 404mm pen at 60 degrees… 8.0.
I cannot comment on these tanks since they are rare and never stood out. But what i can comment on is gaijin’s lack of balancing with other vehicles does not mean PzH2000 and VIDAR are not op
G6 BTW has turret traverse, among the fastest of the artillery pieces.
Why don’t you mention that it’s for a limited arc and it’s doesn’t have an extremely fast hull traverse like our 2 big boys? And it’s irrelevant anyway
6.0s / 5.0s reload is much better than 19s.
Relatively high-velocity + LRF also makes large-calibre HE much more deadly, as one of the biggest issue with those types of rounds are their large bullet drop, making it hard to hit things (especially at range).
So their firepower / raw effectiveness has been improved by quite a bit over 1.0 HE launchers and 6.7 HE launchers.
I’d say it does, especially against light vehicles (like the FOX), which are hard to deal with due to most SPH’s lack of turret traverse speed / stabilizer. They also help with breaking down fences / walls… because HE detonates on them.
Maybe on road, but definitely not in other forms of terrain.
JaPzK has 4s reload, not 6s.
I think Object 120 should be 7.7, but could stay at 8.0 if 8.0-9.3 gets decompressed.