Not all planes will be able to use ARHs with TWS (hell not even every nation has a plane that can use ARHs), by the time all top tier planes do, AESA would likely already be added. But trying to force it within the year might make top tier ARB even more of a mess.
I was more referring to AESA air combat in general. We basically have little reference on what to expect on how Gaijin plans to simulate it for planes.
Honestly, it’s going to always be a mess with 16 vs 16. Until that is fixed, it’s just going to a case of luck on who survives the first encounter and then snowball effect, rarely allowing for some nuanced combat.
I’m of the opinion of throw everything in there sooner so everyone can have their cake and then work about a RB EC type deal with the, more or less, finalized aircraft roster.
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AESA radar on a jet is an ability to scan both air and ground(In case of F-2 - simultaneously, not sure about others), track 10+ targets at the same time(Imagine salvo of aim7m at different targets), air targets are not safe near the ground, can’t notch and complete silence on any RWR including if target locked.
You sure we are close? I personally don’t expect F-2 earlier then december.
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I expect it any update but least likely for next one because it’s ARH focused and Gaijin isn’t going to give Japan 2 aircraft in one update lol. Most likely the September one or October/November. December I think is going to be for the EFT and Rafale which an early F-2 variant could not really compete with.
We both know most of those things will not be modeled. The only thing we can hope for is TWS showing multiple targets on your screen as opposed to just one (the rest still being displayed in the radar display).
They will not model the ability to multi fire missiles (the F-14s we have SHOULD be able to do this already and yet it still can’t). It’s not even a balance issue, it’s a gameplay issue. How would you make keybinds for this? It would be annoying. It can’t be automatic either as that’s annoying just like in Ace Combat.
AESA will get multipathing too, do you know why? Because Gaijin already admitted that current implementation is too generous for gameplay reasons. Similarly, AESA radars will be affected and nothing will change gameplay wise with regards to just hugging the ground.
Being unnotchable I can see as it doesn’t matter if the radar missile doesn’t have an AESA seeker, however Gaijin could also add some notch limits so it’s not too oppressive. Remember this is a GAME first and historical simulation far second.
They will not be silent on RWR either because they will update all aircraft with modern RWR to pickup AESA radars (You know how the Apache and other modern RWRs can pickup the Pantsirs tracking radar, even though it’s P/AESA?).
For example, look at the Type 10. We cannot expect the F-2 to come to the game anywhere close to how it would be IRL. AESA will be nerfed and neutered because it’s not a 1 to 1 mil-sim and as mentioned before, gameplay comes first.
All I expect is an F-16C airframe that performs as well, if not better, than the Gripen (when not weighed down with a full load of SARHs) with good TWS/lock capabilities thanks to the radarset. In this meta it will be a support aircraft as it doesn’t have the sustain of the Gripen with BOL pods nor does it have the massive weaponry as the Su-27s and soon to be other ARH carriers. However, just like the nickname implies, it will outturn any other aircraft currently in the game as a proper “Zero”, at least until EFT/Rafale and maybe Gripen E come to the game.
I don’t think it would be too hard to either make dedicated keys for switching targets or allow players to create a key that continuously cycles available targets. IIRC there is a simmilar system already in WT.
The reason Apaches can pick up the Pantsir’s tracking radar isn’t because of the PESA radar technology but due to the specific frequencies/bands their RWRs can detect. Most RWR systems in WT currently can’t even detect the K band; that’s how dated they are.
AESA is fundamentally more dangerous compared to PESA because of its ability to change frequencies and the capability to use multiple “sub-beams”. This makes it significantly harder for RWR systems, not only because they need to cover a wide range of frequencies/bands but also because they must recognize when they are being locked onto by a changing frequency or getting painted by many different sub-beams that are extremely close to background emission levels, likely too close to effectively filter out and detect that they are being targeted. AESA systems are designed to outsmart modern RWR; it wouldn’t be a stretch to assume they would demolish older systems.
It’s not a question of being able to make the keybinds but like, making it simple for the average WT player. One of the reasons, IIRC, that they simplified the current radar (where it auto selects modes when it loses lock) was so players didn’t have to fiddle with the modes because it was too complicated for them.
In that same vein, having to lock multiple targets would be annoying and very niche. It’s another reason why again the F-14 (and possibly others) don’t have this modeled already.
I’m aware of the bands, but my point being that Gaijin will update RWR to all aircraft to the most up to date modern standards to detect AESA.
Gameplay takes priority and it’s highly likely they will have an entire top tier full of AESA aircraft that cannot detect each other. They will make whatever changes are needed to suit gameplay. Just like how they add missile diamonds to smokeless missiles. At least as far as arcade and realistic is concerned. SIM might have some niche quirks.
I just think people are over-exaggerating AESA. Expecting it to be anything other than a fast sweeping PD radar is asking for disappointment (see lack of CVT for years for the Type 10 and others).
The big difference between AESA and the Type 10s CVT are that it will one will actually effect more that one vehicle. It’s not like gaijian refuse to add features, within the past 2 years they have completely reworked RWR, added VWS, HMD, IRCCM, thrust vectoring and realistic (Ish) PESA. If you think it’s just going to be a fast PD radar sure, but that’s already what PESA is.
If AESA is added it might not get all its irl features immediately but just like VHS and optical tracking it will get added eventually and the more planes with AESA the more realistic and accurate it will get (especially if they add something like the mig35).
(Also I wouldn’t say its fair to compare ground with air as separate people work on ground and air)
It’s because IRL isn’t balanced. They can add features all they want as long as it doesn’t create huge imbalances.
They still won’t add it like IRL. The optical tracking is kinda wonky itself in that it won’t work even with clear background if the target is low enough. Basically it only activates if the target is higher than the ground to the point that multipath doesn’t take effect which is just wrong. This is what I mean about compromising for gameplay.
What will happen is they’ll add them like fast PD and then later on when everyone has AESA, update them. Just like how radars got reworked to have their PD and RWRs got reworked later, etc. AESA won’t be no different.
That’s actually sounds reasonablle, maybe.
I expect so but that’s as stupid as releasing a modern tank without working canon barrel and only 50cal. because it will be too OP at 1.7br otherwise
But mah gameplay is unbalanced shit anyway…
I don’t know about pantsir vs apache specific case. And I couldn’t find if it have an all-band AESA radar like F-2 does. I doubt it have an actual AESA radar at all tbh. Just PESA maybe?(not sure what you mean by P/AESA) (I didn’t look much into pantsir tho)
I am too lazy rn to give sources but from what I remember at least F-2 AESA(If not any AESA) able to use all bands and it changes frequencies and such in random sequence making it undistinguishable from background radio noise. No modern RWR placed on jet exist that could catch it.
Maybe I will search into it again and update later.
Well it’s not really about nerfing, it’s about it unique features. You wouldn’t accept type10 without autoloader and 8sec reload because it’s too strong, aren’t you?
I’m not sure the comparison is valid.
This is true, but the point is still valid, things are done for gameplay reasons, not to be a full 1 to 1 simulation.
It’s possible but from a gameplay perspective that would suck, wouldn’t you agree? Especially if top tier is full of AESA fighters. No RWR pings, all silent, randomly exploding because someone launched a AESA ARH that you couldn’t detect. No different than getting swatted by an invisible missile. It’s not just an F-2 problem but a full on top tier gameplay problem.
I would accept it because it’s a Type 10 and it looks cool, but that’s just me. I get your point, however I can’t expect it to come with 2A5/6/7 levels of turret armor and round penetration with CVT on a 3 second reload either.
Ultimately I’m of the opinion that Gaijin will take the path of least resistance and that also is a path that gets the F-2 sooner rather than later. Or we’ll get the F-2 when USA is using the F-22 and then AESA will be least of our worries.
I haven’t heard about any RWR that is able to distinguish AESA radar signal from background noise. You can see PESA signal, but with AESA I believe it’s impossible. If you know anything otherwise I would like to know.
And no, gameplay wouldn’t suck, at least I don’t see gameplay that requires brain as a bad gameplay - you see enemy jet on a radar>you know there is a high chance missile is launched. It’s just change from dumb rush gameplay into more strategical one(kinda similar happened in real life history btw). Also it’s not completely silent, you can still see missile on both RWR(In case of sparrows, probably) and radar.
If it still will be 16v16 then yes it will be bad and I even dare to say trash gameplay. Even without properly imlemented AESA.
Also if gameplay first then why JP tree can’t get guided air to ground weapons unless we provide classified documents signed by japan ministry of defence and emperor of japan himself?
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I wouldn’t say its impossible, but its incredibly difficult, most AESA radars are either designed to fully work in “Low probability of interception” or have a mode to use it. I doubt there is any public information about RWR’s that can reliably detect the sub-beams / frequency changes of AESA.
I can imagine such thing exist, but I highly doubt it’s available for jets because of weight or other issues.
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While it isn’t top tier, this already exists in mid tier jets. Many Russian jets have j band radar, and lots of mid tier American jets only have e g i rwr. It’s mildly funny to randomly explode, but also annoying, but it is funny to be the one to make planes randomly explode
I don’t know honestly. I’m just assuming that top of the line military hardware has an answer to this (which they probably do but I only just remembered).
We’ll see with the ARH update if they change the 16 vs 16 format but if not, it would still be painful to get randomly swatted out of the sky.
There is one thing I forgot and it might balance out the invisible RWR ping issue, that being missile approach warning systems. MAWS might be the new information tool to use to detect incoming missiles to at least alleviate the surprise jump scares.
To be fair, they bent the rules and added the F-16AJ specifically to give Japan guided CAS capabilities, even if it’s mediocre compared to other nations.
Right, there is precedence for this, though it’s only limited to a select few aircraft, so I’d imagine it’d be different compared to every aircraft having that ability. Of course, MAWS might be the answer but I’m unsure if every late 4.5 gen has one. I know F-2 early does not IIRC.
From what I’ve read there are none. Some experimental ones may exist but they are not known to public. I haven’t heard even rumors.
Maybe we will see some kind of AI later that will work with all the noise to find signals of interest in real time, kinda similar how they work in space industry to find signals that are unreal for human to notice.
Doesn’t it work on radar signal too? Missile signal tho. Because if so it won’t work against AAM-4 which is stealthy thanks to some kind of programming done that requires J/ARG-1 command and guidance device.
To be really fair this variant of maverick sucks.
i mean all MAWS function is detecting missile approaching you. i guess it’s depend on what type of MAWS is used on the vehicle itself, the pulse-doppler maws works just like the radar one so it probably gonna detect any missile coming IR or S/ARH.
Yea, I’m referring to MAWS that detect missiles approaching it with their own sensors, as opposed to relying on radar waves or something. So not only radar missiles, but also detecting IR missiles.
It does, but it’s something and goes to show that Gaijin will break reality just to make gameplay work.
But what about ARH missiles that already used all propelant? They are still should be hot but is MAWS able to see them?
AFAIK it’s scanning the area around you and detecting any fast moving projectiles coming your way, just like APS on tanks.