Okay then i will answer your points as i previously did:
What can i argue, despise the fact that i disagree, yes at 13.0 evry planes suffers tho i can admit that.
Yes and no, yes it fills a niche role (extreme dogfighting capabilities) , but when it comes to Fox3 i disagree totally, the maps and trees have bugged hitboxes and with the wingspan of the M4K it makes it very hard to dodge between the trees and the missiles.
When it comes to ground hugging 30% of the time it isn’t enough, the missile will detonate in the ground and kill you with shrapnel, when that doesn’t kill you instantly it will damage the plane, the M4k model is among the weakest model at 13.0 with IMMENSE control zones that will make you unable to do anything.
About Magic2 like i said previously it is an okay missile for 13.0 but is not incredible and with the lack of HMD you got to really get into it to launch them correctly and doing that while dodging fox3 and huging the ground with that immense wingspan is hard.
It is meant to but fox3 forces it to be flown below 50m (even 30m to be safe) and even then you aren’t safe so it really suffers in my perspective.
I agree it is not a noob machine like the F15-E or F-14 that requires 0 skill of course it is difficult but i find that it is too difficult and lacks in several places.
I’ve done this both with the Su-27 and Mirage 4000, and most of the time you dodge the missiles just fine, no splash damage gets you.
Again, the Mirage 4000 has the benefit of carrying a lot of missiles while being a rather agile plane, especially when it comes to rebuilding speed at low fuel.
Also, HMD is by no means a must-have at 13.0, there are even 13.7 planes get do the job just fine without it.
50m is too high, 30m is still rather high. When it comes to actually dodging, you need to be lower.
Haven’t played them, but reluctant to accept your take of them being a “noob machine requiring 0 skill”.
Points you haven’t addressed:
The strength of top tier IR missiles in not being dodgeable by groundhugging.
Mirage’s uniquity in having a large missile loadout and great ballistic performance, being able to go right (aka into the fray) and let off a bunch of missiles at people whose first instinct is to drop the altitude — which, again, doesn’t help. This is how Mirage 4000 fits into the meta.
Alvis’ points about the shortcomings of other 13.0 planes that may also not have fox 3s despite going up against them frequently.
This is the ultimate answer for playing the M4K. I don’t think you’re acknowledging it either.
You got that the wrong way around. You’re the one claiming it doesn’t work as frequently. Groundhugging is pretty much the base technique used or abused to the point that people are criticising it as too primitive and unrewarding.
You did claim that I was inexperienced or not noticing it, I asked you if it could be the other way around, and you got offended at that.
Now you’re trying to paint yourself to be the victim here.
Your experience isn’t an argument i don’t get why you say this .
Like the F15 and others.
Wich plane at 13.7 don’t use HMD, HMD is incredible with fox2 because you can actually move the bore, it really is essential if you don’t have it in 1v1 with a good dogfighter that has it you will lose at medium distance ofc not at gun range.
On almost all maps you can’t be higher than 30M because of like i said the WINGSPAN and the HITBOXES.
You just fly to the stratosphere lock an ennemy and fire, switch target and fire again, it is that simple to get kills with them.
You have not mentionned that so how can i adress it ???
And when a good player with a lot of chaff and flares gets locked your missile will not track well and by groundhugging the missile will hit the ground or a mountain if you know what you do.
It literally doesn’t have you played recently, most people climb to 10k meters, those left get killed by allied with better planes such as EF-2000 or SU27SM that has BVR capabilites.
Some planes have fox3 but have ofc lacks at 13.0 it is entirely normal, just the AIM120 at 13.0 is incredibly strong and if you have a single second of focus on another plane you will not end well.
The main problem is the sheer volume of fox3 carriers in M4K games, they can just go defensive and you won’t be abble to do anything to them if they play well and their team will HUNT you because you are easier to kill due to the lack of FOX3 and Mid range SARH.
I did if you read:
Dogfighting is close range idk what you didn’t understand.
Then neither is yours, so where is this conversation going?
Precisely. Except that instead of getting the R-73s, SARH like the Su-27, it has to use Magic 2s, IR. It’s almost like they’re identically limited and challenging you to adapt.
Belgian F-16AM.
Well, there you have it then. You obviously need to choose your path well. If you’re going to try to stay under 30m over ridges and clusters, you won’t really get far. You’ve got to know your terrain and stick to patches that can let you drop low if you need it.
Funny how the Mirage 4000 and the Belgian 13.0 F-16 teach you exactly how to beat that, since you have no tools to engage people from afar. You’ll think this is a flex but I think if you’d actually learnt to play those two, you’d see this where I’m coming from.
Okay, and that point addresses his… how exactly?
He’s telling you that the M4K is about closing the gap. Your reply is “dogfighting is close range”. Yeah, that’s what he’s saying.
That’s the unique part about the Mirage 4K, the Belgian F-16 at 13.0, perhaps a couple of other fighters like this in other trees.
There is a single f16 at 13.0 that is the belgian one… i already specified with just that…
Says how? No one bring its CAS capabilites until you did, and the only mention of it was about the lack of missiles at 13.0 which has nothing to do with cas.
The begian f16a is not in the game for cas, it literally is and was worse than the french options in this br at that…
At this point youre either making things up or you are just day dreaming.
Like i said it wasn’t clear and i already said, i tought it was the 12.7
The plane was introduced to serve as CAS and not at as CAP or with AA capabilities:
Here is the japanese F16 with missile to the right like fighters:
Here is the F16 (belgian) at 13.0 like CAS planes :
and here the A10-C an attack aircraft:
As you can see the disposition of AA missiles is the same between a CAS (A10-C) and the belgian F16 so that is why i said it is made for CAS and implemented in that intent.
literally in the same sentence i also called the specific variant that has fox 1 at 12.7.
Just because it has the same disposition as the a10c doesnt make it a “cas” plane, just like the mirage 4000 is a multirol aircraft and even then it is at the same br non the less.
your argument was “I’ve done this both with the Su-27 and Mirage 4000, and most of the time you dodge the missiles just fine, no splash damage gets you.” and it isn’t an argument and points to nothing if i have lived something different it is logic to think why.
And that is why i told you this doesn’t usually happen in my experience. Maybe this happens to you currently but not to me. If everybody can launch a game and somebody can’t that doesn’t mean the person who can’t have anything to do with this. This is pure logic, just because you doesn’t experience something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exists.
No because both of them have what HMD and SRC PD as i stated before yes it is a special plane but that weakness doesn’t have to affect it to such extent.
F16 AM has HMD and is better with it i don’t get your point, because it has it and you don’t use it doesn’t mean nobody will use it. That is all !
No this is pure illogic, taking the same route every match and doing the same thing is a pure lack of creativity, that is what is wrong IMO of this type of gameplay, by thinking like that everybody will do the same 24/7 and the meta will always be the same, this is just too limited IMO.
“but I think if you’d actually learnt to play those two” and that is supposedf to not be offensive yeah not nice dude think of a better way to say thing you really aren’t nice.
Well then they just have to fly at Stratosphere level and you won’t catch them, the ennemy will launch waves of attacks and sometime you will eventually lose.
This is just adaptation to lack of tools. This is just fighting unfair fights.
What point there is no point of course M4K is close range and that is his weakness due to the fact that you CANT close that gap if they play normally.
I JUST SAID IT WASN’T CLEAR WHAT CAN I SAY MORE WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO TELL YOU ???
Then why is it in the game go on find something i put things i even give you PROOF that it was built in the intent to be CAS/Multirole and you just say nothing. Also some F16 in the belgian army were made to replace Mirage5 that were used as multirole bombers/CAP so that is why the lack of FOX1.
No the Mirage 4000 was not implemented in the idea to be a multirole bomber, it was just fitted to what was already in game and what was best at that time (In real life), that is why it has such poor bombs and Ground Pound Capabilities, AS30L were already present on M2K same as BGL1000 and same as other bombs and rockets, notice how the missiles are on the right, like fighters in the game.
Yes it is a multirole that is undeniable but in game it is not implemented as a multirole oriented aircraft, there is very little of them in game.
It was never implemented to begin with, also the f16a is no a “multirol bomber” it a multirol fighter, it is based on a fighter frame not on a bomber frame, and the reason why it doesnt have fox ones is because they are f16a which doesnt have such capabilities, later on these same aircraft were upgrated to the AM.
Btw the mirage 4000 was heavily advertised for its air to ground capabilities, some souces even show that it was intended to use up to 9 laser guided bombs.
The one in game use a proposed variant, it has loadouts that the real one couldnt even use, like the 530d, btw the in game it is clearely meant as a multirol aircraft.
In game it keeps having a powerful air to ground loadout, far better than the one on the f16a.
