There are a lot of jets that are faster… the 262 also can’t maintain its speed easily without downhill slopes due to low engine thrust
And there are WW2 era jets at higher BR that are slower as I pointed out. I don’t see why the 262 is a particularly special case amongst WW2 era jets that would warrant a down tier.
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Because the 262, unlike the jets you listed, is not capable of turning well or accelerating well or any other characteristic to save it.
Right, but again the 262 isn’t alone in being outclassed by certain jets at this BR. Why is the 262 a special case? If anything the argument would be to push up other jets and decompress the BRs. Otherwise you’re just pushing the problem to mid-tier props :D
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Nothing, this is just how the game is, it’s incredibly difficult for vehicles to get downtiered because they just die, people stop playing them and they’re ignored, or a few people play them that keep the stats high enough.
It’s an issue with the game Gaijin refuses to acknowledge, low player count vehicles perform better on average and get overtiered, this happened in 2014 and it happened in 2024.
Because there were just 4 jets active until VE & V-J day:
- Me 262 & He 162
- Meteor F. 3 and YP-80A
An era ends when the milestone is reached.
From an older thread regarding 262s…:
Summary
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This summary doesn’t help at all.
to quote from it…“The 262 A-1s was far superior compared with the Meteor F.3 and the YP-80 - as the main decisive factor “critical mach number” was higher - what makes a slower aircraft inferior by default.”
The YP-80/P-80 A-1 isn’t in the game as far as i’m aware, and the stats for the Meteor F.3 are known and place it at 7.3, above the 262 A-1.
The only one that stands out is the C-2b which arguably should be down with the rest of the 262’s at 7.0/7.3
This was mainly a topic regarding “WW 2 era”.
The OP and the debate circles around the correct BR of 262s. So it is technically not correct to call post WW 2 stuff as “WW 2 era”.
So your question / statement:
I don’t see why the 262 is a particularly special case amongst WW2 era jets that would warrant a down tier.
is not considering that the 262 solely flew vs props and outperformed the only 2 existing allied jets.
My “summary” was aimed to display the level of hand-holding gaijin provides to non-262 users as either the BR of the 262s are too high - or Cold War era jets (=>09.1945) are too low; that’s all.
The pure fact that the Meteor F.3 (as actual WW 2 plane with a few V-1 kills) was uptiered to 7.3 just shows two factors:
- British pilots have more experience
- The wt meta favors non-irl combat scenarios
There is no need to turnfight a more nimble but slower plane, but in wt players somehow have other opinions - just ask dedicated A6M players…
Arado was active aswell and the me163 if you want to count rocket planes aswell. The Arado was used as bomber and as reconnaissance aircraft
@Uncle_J_Wick @OIiman
looking at real life stats doesn’t help in deciding the br. There are many factors which are more important in reality which aren’t in warthunder for example range, maintancence (the reason the me262 had the engines under the wings), reliability. Turn rate wasn’t that important especially for early jets without g-suits.
Additionally some stats are buffed in warthunder like the max g-limit for the wings is always higher in wt iirc
Once you get to aim better with the me 262 A-1/U4 it is a monster in GRB and 3 rounds are good enough to get a kill
Same with the Me 163, it’s either 8.0 or 8.7 because it gets different gun, just old vehicles that get neglected as there is no good system to prevent this.
Any vehicle that doesn’t get played a lot should just get a modifier to account for it, or a system that automatically lowers such vehicles in BR over time.
Because the 262 is FAR more outclassed than the rest? I don’t want to downtier the 262 either but decompression needs to happen and gaijin will never do it
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They don’t turn like a brick at all, they’re similar to the P-80. The issue is not that the 262 is bad at 7.0, it’s that so many other allied aircraft have been compressed down over time. There is no reason for the 84B to be 7.0, the F2H be 7.3, Su-11 7.3, and so on. The A1a is obsoleted by the Jabo which gets an airspawn and carries less fuel on min load. Overall the 262s are quite nice to fly, they’re just competing about highly compressed (mostly)US jets. They can’t go down because they’d be completely untouchable to props, if played right which becomes boring for both parties.
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The 163 had a 4 step throttle. None of which really affected fuel consumption. It’s not just on and off.
Without the fuel control it’s useless, a 6 minute tank is basically unplayable, but at 8.7 it’s also unplayable, and a different pair of guns is not worth a 0.7 BR increase at a compressed BR range.
Now that the F86A’s and the MiG-15’s see 7.0BR now, playing early germany has been nothing but pain. I want to add that the Vampire F.B.5 (which is slower than the 262 in my observation) is still at 8.0. A BR in which it’s only pro’s are its dogfighting capabilities and armament.
This whole BR feels like a crapfest. I have been TEAM KILLED by an F86F in my Vampire, because I told them in chat that the F86F/F86A doesn’t deserve to get its BR lowered.
Don’t even have anything to say about the Ho-229. You need to have actual masochistic tendencies to be enjoying that thing.
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109-509A-1, used is many captured 163B-1a frames.
And as for the fuel flow, they should just give it the ~7:30 it was capable of, or alternatively buff its climbrate which (depending on source, because performance numbers vary a LOT with this plane) is upwards of being half of what it should be.
I don’t think lowering it would be fair, as much as I’d love to fight props. I think both should be 8.0, the B-0, personally is just worse than the B-1a. I prefer 108s to 151s. But honestly, the 163 / Ki200 don’t need anything changed with them compared to other aircraft at the BR. The vampire at 8.0 is pathetic. Sabre and Fagot both should go up, and probably will soon given the upcoming decompression.
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I fully agree. Vampire used to he one of my favourite aircraft to play, then they bumped it up twice in quick succession which is wild. It’s funny because they bumped the Vampire from 7.3 → 7.7, they did the same with the Su11. But then when they bumped the Vampire to 8.0, the Su-11 straight to 7.0. They claimed that player statistics were not a reliable method of balancing, and the forum post has since been lost to time since the forum update. Ironic, eh?
Yeah, I’ve likely seen the same videos and I got no answers for that man. I love the Komet with all my heart. I think it’s a little sad that its climb rate feels squandered, but I think overall the plane (the B-1a) is in a comfortable position at 8.0 given how easy it is to bait people into vertical reversals.