Playing the game. Currently if you ground spawned them you would simply not play them, ever, because you wouldn’t be ABLE to. Instant death to fighters because of the way the game is.
You’re funny because I have played attackers and bombers more than you have. And I only have 12 days in fighters compared to your 50 days in fighters, so I actually spend much more time than you playing different classes of planes.
Right, because what should happen is not based on anything else except what you think balance should be and not follow the same rules as every other vehicle that can be described in a similar way because you don’t care about those other vehicles.
Look at how the squadron 262 is used. Absolutely abuses bombers and can gain massive altitude advantages early by using the speed to crash climb. Which allows it to dictate it’s fights strictly because of it’s airspawn and not because of a pilot’s skill or decision making. Basically just spawn, nose up, advantage gained. Do tell me how many people actually ground attack in it.
Neat thing is that what you believe or suspect may not be an actual reflection of the truth of the situation. Granted, early jets aren’t my favorite aircraft to play, but I would have to assume that most people playing 262s are people who are German mains that are used to having very effective Bf-109s that move into a plane that isn’t as dominant in as many circumstances. Quite upsetting to hit a vehicle that isn’t the best at a BR, best move it down so it can be dominant instead of being a bit below average.
You say that because right now they get instantly jumped on because of their known spawn points and because they are the first planes encountered by fighters. If attackers spawned at the airfield, they would probably have sufficient fighter cover to move quite unhindered, and be able to take differing routes to bases without being the first planes spotted as well. I tested this theory with the PBJ and A-26s for fun because I know they aren’t fast and agile like some of the better attackers, and I still managed to make it to bases and ground attack with them. Still viable, especially for vehicles that cause problems now like the Do-335s and the Wyvern.
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I said you speak as someone who doesn’t. It is frankly strange why you would play the class and still believe for no explained reason why they could survive without airspawn in most cases.
Probably nobody because that wasn’t the role irl either afaik. Why would they? An airspawned 262 is still a 262 and it’s not hard to equalize energy with one.
No shit, everything you’re saying is pure opinion as well. We’re discussing a topic. Usually that comes with exchanging opinions.
262s are far below average.
And that is the joke about it. A2 and A4 has an attacker airspawn at 6.7 and the A1 doesn’t at 7.0. Identical planes with different loadout.
Simple problem with the 262 is that it has been powercrept to such a degree that it cant start a fight in any way on its own terms even if you are the better pilot. The 262 doesnt permit literally any mistake and due to 108s sparking more than anything, even if you get the drop on someone there is a high chance you get smoked in the process due to 108´s.
Basically any fighterjet at that BR has better armament for jet combat than the 262 has. All other jets either have airbrakes, better acceleration, turn, climb or all of it in comparison to the 262. The 262 is the only jet that has an effective firing range of less than 300m, as soon as you are outside of 500m he can tailgate you but cant hit you due to the low MV of the 108´s (if the speed is above 500-600kph).
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I would say to lower thier BRs.
you simply can’t compete with others jets literally every other jet at thier BRs are better than them except for 2 to 3 exceptions the others are just better than the 262 by miles.
everything have better engines, they have better acceleration, top speed, climb rate, turn rate, plus almost all jets have better high velocity 20mm and 50.cals and all you have is the low velocity Mk108s, so you will always struggle to hit anything but they will hit you with ease, it make head-on almost impossible too since the other fighters will just move out of the way the moment they see your muzzle flash, you are a brick too so you can’t turn fight them bc they will just out turn you and get on your 6 even if you disengage and start climbing or even start running way from other fighters they will easily catch up to you or just out climbing you and hunt you down bc they are simply better.
Imo the 262 are not good for their Brs you are simply out climbed, out turned by everyone, you are slow and you don’t accelerate as fast as everyone, plus you lose speed quickly and your guns are horrible.
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I believe they can survive without an airspawn because fighters exist. If you have fighters climbing above you then they can provide cover with an energy advantage over another fighter that stays low looking for attackers. Also since a majority are slower than the fighters around their BR, they will not be the first aircraft spotted and targeted while they are alone with no friendly aircraft nearby. The current airspawn system leaves attackers alone with no good way to defend themselves against enemy fighters that they will encounter before allied planes can reach them.
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In a game with teamwork, something WT doesn’t have, yes.
This is a non-defense, “they’re so SLOW it HELPS!” is laughable. Can you think of any other problems with being slow?
Yes, teamwork is almost nonexistent in Warthunder, but when the fighters can come together and start fighting prior to strike aircraft arriving then there are less fighters able to intercept them. Also, any fighter that stays low in an attempt to intercept those strikers takes on a massive disadvantage against other fighters because of the energy advantage higher altitude fighters have on that low altitude fighter.
Cool story, but let’s talk aircraft role/design for a minute. Fighters are designed for fighting other aircraft. They are more nimble and usually more lightly armed (talking bombs/rockets), and if they do carry ordnance then it hinders their fighter performance greatly. Strike aircraft are designed for fighting ground targets. They are usually larger, more stout airframes that are capable of carrying a moderate amount of bombs and more (or heavier) guns than fighters. They are not agile aircraft because they aren’t designed to need that agility.
Usually strike aircraft and bombers are escorted on missions by fighters. This doesn’t happen in Warthunder because strike aircraft are spawned much to far ahead of the airfield for fighters to catch up before the strikers get engaged by enemy fighters (same with bombers, but it is an altitude problem). Spawning at the airfield means there will be fighters AHEAD of those strike aircraft that will take the attention of the other fighters. It also means that the strike aircraft can stay low which makes them harder to spot, increasing the amount of stealth that can be leveraged. This wouldn’t be a huge issue if RB didn’t have spotting mechanics that worked 5+km out. It also means that planes can take differing routes because they have more space to move about and that means less direct lines to objectives, making interception harder. Also, strike aircraft will not be the first aircraft to see enemy fighters every game, unescorted, and at a massive disadvantage in air to air combat characteristics.
Basically enable strike aircraft to do their job, not lower their BR until they are effective against other aircraft. Then you get Wyverns, Do-335B2s, and Su-25ks/A-10s.
The Me 262 A-1 Schwalbe (Swallow) was designed as a defensive interceptor, and the Me 262 A-2 Sturmvogel (Stormbird) served as a fighter/bomber.
Neither was designed to intercept bombers and the 50mm was a ground-attack variant.
Contradicting yourself there.
It was a new generation of fighters and the Luftwaffe pilots themselves tested its usefulness in combat.
All units from the beginning, were named as trial and test, German Erprobungskommanndo , after the names of the unit commanders … Erprbk. Thierfelder, Erprbk. Nowotny…
The Lufwaffe towards the end of 1944 and the entire rest of the war was in the hands of the commanders of the former Luftwaffe bomber unit, the fighter generalship lost its influence…
The Me 262 initially attacked ground units and propeller-driven aircraft flying at low altitudes…
More or less accidentally, during a test flight at high altitudes, they scored some reconnaissance Mosquita…
The first, high-quality and organized attack on the US bombing forces took place only in March 1945, and that was almost completely over for the Reich.
RAF legend Eric Brown said after testing:
“Never, it wouldn’t be a good dogfighter! But as a bomber destroyer, using the right tactics, it would be, if not a disaster, certainly an extraordinary and major problem for the Allies…”
Hartmann … was approached by Galland to join but didn’t want to go on an untested aircraft…
Galland or Steinhoff, or someone from Experten, said that the Luftwaffe didn’t really know what to do with this plane all the time…
And in the game, that’s another story …
What did he actually fly against and what does he have to fly against in the game…
In his time, he had a chance to meet the Meteor F1 and the YP-80 A1 Shooting Star, neither of which are in the game…
Personally, I would most like to see in the WT event, in this composition …
Allies - B-17/B24, P-80A5, Meteor F3, Mosquito, P-59
Axis - Me-262 A-1a, He-162, Do-335, Dora’s, He-177
Airstart at 5000-7000 meters both teams could try bomber attack/defense …
This way in WT it is better to play a support fighter, it is not the headliner of the battle… And after exploring all the modifications, try to attack the bombers…
When I see how this aircraft behaves in WT, it reminds me the most of a boosted heavy night attack Do-217N2…
It’s a jet, heavy fighter.
It was also initially designed with a prop instead of jet engines like it was initially designed as an interceptor. Almost like designs and purposes can change from initial design to final product.
The prop was there because they couldn’t get any working jet engine. It was designed for jet engines. They just couldn’t get them until later.
This was Hitler’s doing as he insisted on a ground attack version. Messerschmitt pushed and wanted it to be a bomber interceptor.
In the early stages of development it may not have specifically made to intercept bombers but once they could actually continue the project because they got working engines bombing raids on German were constant and Messerschmitt pushed for it to be made as an interceptor hence the 4 x mk108 and the rockets to take out bombers. He later improved the design with the Heimatschützer to get it up to altitude faster with added rocket engines. The A-1/U4 Pulkzestörer again was another bomber interceptor variant. Not a strike. I’m not arguing it should have air spawn. But it was designed and used as an interceptor.
Just wanna leave this contradiction here.
I love the cherry picking. Lemme give you the full quote
Wait can you post pictures of this?? I feel like it could be cool event vehicle!
I do not have any, and I have no idea if photos do exist.