Yeah, ok. It’s top speed is 2 bedroom ranch style house with armour that’s useless and a turret traverse that is equal to a June bug stuck in molasses.
Technically it is slow with a similiar 10 HP/t ratio as a Tiger II and the gun is the weakest of any heavy.
But yeah it’s obviously not bad.
I also in 7 6.7 battles I haven’t gotten a single downtier. 6 full uptiers and one was 7.3, hurray!
Same experience with US 5.7, always uptiered to 6.3 or 6.7.
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It’s only tank that i have kd>1 with.
I stumbled onto that almost by accident. I knew from watching my friends play with high-mobility vehicles, just how deadly flanking could be. So I stubbornly told myself, why shouldn’t I try flanking in a Jagdtiger or a Maus? What could go wrong? :D
I found out it seemed to work most of the time, and only then did I understand why that was.
War Thunder is a fascinating game. It is deceptively simple, and yet complicated. I know I have a long road ahead of me to becoming a good player, but even just all the improvements I’ve gotten so far have been very, very satisfying.
Like I was saying in another thread, I’m not as comfortable with the IS-3 shot trap as I used to be, maybe it’s just a product of coincidence as I’ve had a few instances where turret desync, volumetric, or my own aiming failed me when trying to get the shot trap. Now it feels like a high risk high reward maneuver to me (unless the IS-3 has already fired) and I just go for the safe option of barreling it instead. Maybe that’s too conservative.
But yes, it has the biggest shot trap of any tech tree tank in the game. Only the extremely rare E-100 has it worse.
I think they made them tank destroyers, not heavies.
If you actually push a position up close with a Panther, all its advantages are nullified. Nobody will bother with your strong UFP, which is only relevant if someone’s shooting you at a distance and centre-mass hits become more likely. They will barrel you, knowing you don’t have the acceleration or reverse to get away, or go through the mantlet no problem (if volumetric doesn’t screw them over). And the side armour can be overmatched very easily.
Also, the higher flat pen of the Panther matters far less up close, which means you’re not getting a benefit in exchange for the tradeoffs (longer reload, and low explosive filler).
This is why I always prefer to take Tigers up close, and use Panthers as snipers with good mobility that can relocate or get to a good position with decent reactivity.
That said, I’m basically fine with the three Panthers being at 6.0, so long as you don’t meet a T-29 you’re usually going to be able to do ok. The Tiger E, I honestly would have kept at 5.7, next to the H1.
Of course, it is entirely possible that I just don’t know how to use Panthers very well, and so I’m failing to get how good they could be in the hands of a better player.
It’s not, but I think that was more indicative of the fact that the 76 jumbo is overtiered.
Jumbo 75 should be 5.3, and Jumbo 76 should be 6.0 (I would have once said 5.7, but the current 6.0 is basically the old 5.7, so it’s fine).
That’s the other reason why the Jumbo 75 should go back to 5.3. There are plenty of tools at those BRs to deal with them.
Frankly? Not even. It might save you from a rushed shot, but not from an enemy who knows what they’re doing, especially if you’re in the H1.
Tiger Is are basically mediums to me, not heavies. They’re surprisingly mobile and nimble, great flankers, punchy gun, so admittedly if they were as frontally tough as the Jumbo they’d be OP. I try to mentally never rely on their armour tbh.
Yes. The only exception to that really is the KWI - C if you’re not in a full uptier.
T-34 has same or longer reload. 90mm has same too. 76mm faster but placed on cardboard chassis and have bad slope modifiers.
Slope modifiers on the 76 mm are technically better than the Panther’s 75 mm…
This is due to them firing the same kind of ammunition (capped AP rounds), but the 76 mm is just a tiny bit bigger caliber.
Not that it matters much, it’s only a 1 mm difference, but point is that the 75 mm on the Panther does not have better slope modifiers than other similar caliber guns firing the same type of projectile. That’s just how the game works. It might have better angle pen, sure, but that’s a consequence of higher flat penetration.
Didn’t german aphe had cap with anti- ricochet and normalizing profile?
Not really anti-ricochet. The cap on APC and APCBC rounds is primarily meant to prevent the round from shattering when hitting armor, which became important as rounds were getting progressively faster.
That’s besides the point though. All APC type rounds (that means APC and APCBC) use the same slope modifier tables.
What this means is that if you shoot a specific plate of armor with two APC or APCBC rounds of the same caliber, even with different speeds and different weights, the plate of armor will show identical effectiveness independently from the projectile you pick.
No you are correct about them. It’s just some players always bitching how the Panther is the greatest medium because it has the highest penetration and frontal armor that others can’t pen, completely negclecting that in almost every other aspect it is inferior to other medium tanks.
If you play like a medium the Panther has no real benefit. Only when you play it like a TD it will beat others with the ability to easily penetrate tanks at range.
I always prefered the Panther D and F since they embody the tank destroyer role of the Panther.
Maybe the increase to 6.0 would have been justified at the time the Panther A had 700 HP and 24° turret traverse speed but now it’s just slower Panther D that can turn the turret better at closer range.
Maybe the only reason they went up is because of their trolly turret armor, idk.
The Jumbo at 6.3 still had the strongest turret of any heavy. Tiger II P and IS-2 mod 1944 had the same issue as the Panther, that simply every tank could shoot them straight through the turret or just through the side of it.
Also we’re still talking 5.9s reload with stabilized cannon and with better HP/T ratio than the other heavies you could keep up with mediums and fight at close range and deal massive damage getting on the enemies flank.
So 6.3 is certainly justified for the 76mm Jumbo. However the 75mm Jumbo does have some firepower issues. It struggles even with the side of some targets and also has really subpar velocity, so it’s not that easy to land a good side shot on a tank moving at +500m.
I mean I knocked out Tigers with the EBR 1951 at these ranges but as a light tank you get a lot more chances to shoot tanks in the side than the 75m Jumbo, which has to get really close to fight effectively.
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Panthers is still way better as medium tank that T25, it can’t play even as a medium tank.
The panthers are great medium tanks, however, the long76 shermans have a stabilized gun, people dont play to its advantages, as for me i am mostly comparing it to the 75 Jumbo since everyone seems to think they are equal when in many aspects they arent. The 76 medium sheemans yes, they are equal. And in Uptier to 7.0 the panthers steuggle, MY initial thing is they need to move the 75 Jumbo down as it has lacking firepower and it has its armor effectiveness taken away by alot of things when its labled as a heavy.
(Tbh tho my main issue is how its gun preforms to every other nations 5.7) as every other nations 5.7 has more than 104mm of pen. Its a very underwhelming tank at its BR bracket now. And thatd be fixed when they finish decompressing the BRs whenever that will happen.
I just figured out how to play the 75mm Jumbo.
I played two matches with 5.7 France, expecting pure pain but it seems like you get matched with Germany most of the time.
I had two matches. First one was GER, RU, FR the other just Germany on my team, both wins.
While playing the US Jumbo I lost basically every match.
When you have Germany on your team you generally fight a lot more light or lightly armored vehicles, like M18 and M36s, which the Jumbo just happends to counter perfectly.
So the true strenght of the Jumbo is really to be better at killing vehicles that are a threat to German vehicles than killing German vehicles itself.
While glass cannon TDs like the Nashorn and Waffenträger are a bigger threat to the Jumbo than vehicles that need to hit the Jumbo in the lower side to penetrate it.
So as long as you don’t fight German tanks, you are much more competetive.
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I support it, when KV-1 zis 5 go back to 4.0 or 4.3 BE. With him it have a same problem.
Well, these types of heavy tanks always faced the problem that they are excellent in downtiers but almost useless in uptiers.
There is really no inbetween.
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That’s true to hard to balance it, but firstly we think a bit through, in 4.3 BR -4.7 BR currently not too many vehicle exist(the garbage Kv-1 zis 5 and poor Churchill MK VII /the op flanker T-34/57 and some TD with big gun). When we moved back M4a3e2 into 5.3 BR from 5.7 in realistic game mod(in arcade still on 5.3 BR) it will not be as a huge garbage as now because not will face against Tiger II H , T-44 and other 6.7 BR predator. That will be balance it a bit.
But firstly some other condition need to met:
-KV-1 Zis 5 go back to 4.3 or 4.0 BR(in 3.7-4.0 BR tanks in 90% able to defeat him, from front. Not know much more than T-34 mod 42) do not need to suffer against M4A3E2 in too much case.
-Churchill MK VII able to use M61 APHE varaint and T45 APCP to be less garbage when fight againt 5.7 BR tanks. OR Move him to 4.3 BR also because his current mobility and firepower equal against 4.0 BR tanks.
On reflection, my biggest issue with Panthers is that I almost always have a better alternative to spawn in.
Need to go cqc or flank? Tigers are obviously better.
Need mobility? The only one that is still very fast is the VK, the D has similar top speed but lower acceleration, and frankly Tigers are no mobility slouches either.
Need to be a TD? You have a lot of actual TDs to choose from.
Just to be clear I still deploy Panthers and can also have fun in them, I’m just thinking in pure terms of performance. Panthers seem almost as situational as tank destroyers to me. For example, if you want to snipe but the spot you have in mind can’t be reached by a slow open top SPG, or there are planes in the air, or you’re out of Tigers and need to get somewhere quickly.
For example, I often see it said that in a full uptier you should spawn Panthers and not Tigers, because they are much less sensitive to the full uptier, and the more I think about it, the more I disagree: they are just as badly affected. In a full uptier, Panthers are no more survivable than a Waffenträger for example, you’ll meet plenty of stuff that can easily shrug off your armour (which is completely normal). They don’t have the mobility to be used as lights or shoot and scoot. All that is left is the gun - people say Panthers are better for full uptiers because that’s where the higher flat pen makes an impact.
Problem is, it’s not that much higher flat pen. If you meet a T34 or a T29 you can maybe sing them a song. This is a common situation for other mediums in full uptiers, but because the Panther is a better sniper than it is a medium, to me it stops being worth it the moment the gun lets you down. If you really wanted to prioritise pen because of full uptier conditions, spawn a Waffenträger. That is a BR agnostic vehicle.
Also, even if you really wanted to use that gun in a full uptier, Pz IV 70 is a better choice. It is just as survivable against the stuff you’d meet in a 7.0 match, which is to say zero, but at least you have a low silhouette and workable reverse gear.
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But usually german players filling 6.7 setup with panthers as companionf for tiger 2. Do they has no alternatives?
I would never, ever bring a Panther D, A, G, or F in any lineup higher than 6.0. The only Panther I make an exception for is the VK, because of its high mobility: I occasionally use it as an ersatz-light tank in my 6.3 lineups.
As for 6.7, my most used vehicle there is the Jagdtiger. Though I’m starting to get more into the Sla as well.
For reference, these are my lineups between 5.3 and 6.7. As you can see: yes, Germany has plenty of options.
Are there any vehicles that have been more br raped that the french EBR series. One of them sits at like 5.3 with like 103mm pen…
Ok the 1954 one had a history of terrorizing german mains and was extremely undertiered on release (was 4.3 now is 6.7). It has seen the most br changes in history. Now it still doesn’t have the better shell.
I like how they moved the h1 tiger but not the prototype and pather D. Jumbo was fine at 5.3