M41GTI - Another Failure

[Would you like to see this in-game?]
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0 voters

TL;DR: A German improved M41 equipped with a stabilizer and more efficient engine.

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Note: To clarify, I am suggesting this vehicle for Germany since they were the one that built it and no one else went through with purchasing it.

History:

After WW2, Germany was split into two halves, East and West. The end of WW2 also brought about NATO and immediately after the signing of the treaty that brought it into existence, the question about West Germany’s entrance into the organization was brought up. West Germany’s entrance into NATO would essentially mean that Germany would be allowed to rearm itself, which wasn’t a popular decision with many parties for obvious reasons, however, it was eventually reasoned that German engineers were some of the best in the world and if led properly, they could become an incredibly strong ally. It was decided that the most logical course of action was to rearm both sides. The West would enter NATO on May 9th, 1955, with the Bundeswehr being created only a few months later on November 12th, 1955. To be able to defend itself, it was predicted that the Bundeswehr would need at least 3,000 tanks the first 1,100 of these would be M47s cheaply acquired from the US, accompanied by 50 M41 light tanks. These M41s would be largely assigned to reconnaissance and tank destroyer units, though a few did worm their way into actual tank grenadier units. Unfortunately, the M41 was terribly unpopular with German crews as they simply didn’t like the concept of a light tank. Once the Leopard 1, JPz 4-5, and RakJPz 2 were ready for service, all M41s would be immediately phased out with the Leopard 1 replacing it in reconnsaince and tank grenadier units and the JPz 4-5 and RakJPz 2 replacing it in tank destroyer units. This meant that Germany now had a few perfectly serviceable M41s just sitting around collecting dust, perfect for use in experiments and export attempts. One such export attempt was the M41GTI (German Tank Improvement), an upgrade package which was, contrary to popular belief, not exclusively intended for Thailand, but rather any of the many countries that still used stock M41s. The package added the MOLF 41 fire control system, which included a thermal periscope, laser rangefinder, and a digital computer. This system was accompanied by the ELAN 41 T, which replaced the original hydraulic turret drive with an electrical one that included a stabilizer. The engine was replaced by the MTU MB 833 Aa-501 diesel engine, which developed 450hp. While this engine was inferior to the original in terms of raw horsepower (450hp vs 500hp), it was much more efficient and increased the vehicle’s range to 600km, much better than the original 161km. That being said, the drop in horsepower did lower the maximum speed to 60kph. The original 76mm M32 cannon was maintained, however, the coaxial was replaced with a Heckler & Koch HK21 machine gun. New shock absorbers, torsion bars, and sideskirts were also installed. The M41GTI would undergo trials in Thailand in early 1986, however, it would not be adopted or proceed past a single prototype.

Place In Game:

Squadron vehicles have been a vehicle type in-game for quite a while now, yet the majority of the newer squadron vehicles are at very high tiers. This not only results in unpleasantly long research times, but also allows less experienced players to buy in to the higher ranks with a stock vehicle causing the losses of countless games. High tier premiums are also guilty of this but at least they aren’t stock. There hasn’t been a good low/mid tier squadron vehicle added for quite a while and this strange and slow M41 equipped with a stabilizer would be a great fit, potentially acting as a more accessible alternative to the RU 251. It’s not an overly iconic vehicle so new players won’t GE it and it has a tech tree equivalent. Playstyle would be rather interesting. You wouldn’t be as fast as most of your contemporaries, however, you make up for your lackluster speed with the ability to sling HEAT-FS and APDS on the move. You have an objective advantage over many of your enemies as long as they’re moving at a decent speed. This allows for a decently aggressive playstyle. You should still play with caution, however, as you’re bound to eventually run into a stationary enemy that knows how to lead their shots. As previously mentioned, the best way to add the M41GTI would be as a squadron vehicle, however, due to its intention as an export vehicle, it would also make a very good battlepass or event vehicle.

Specifications:

Armament: 76mm M32 cannon and 1x 7.62mm MG,

Dimensions: 5.81m, 3.19m, 2.72m

Weight: 23000kg

Armor: Same as leKPz M41 in-game

Crew: 4

Ammunition: Same as leKPz M41 in-game

Speed: 60kph

Horsepower: 450hp

Pictures:

Front View:

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During Trials In Thailand:

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Four View Diagram:

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Sources:

Легкий танк M41 | Михаил Никольский | страница 4 | LoveRead.ec - читать книги онлайн бесплатно

M41 Walker Bulldog - Wikipedia

M41 Walker Bulldog In Action by Jim Mesko

Die Panzer M 41 und M 47 in der Bundeswehr by Stefan Marx

A Compendium of Armaments and Military Hardware by Christopher Chant

Sheridan: A History of the American Light Tank Volume 2 by R.P. Hunnicutt

4 Likes

why is this in “other nations”? This should be under the german tag because it’s a german upgrade

7 Likes

Something the mods did. I suggested it under Germany. On the old forum it was under Germany so I don’t know what they’re thinking now.

2 Likes

If you have questions about why something is in a section feel free to direct message a moderator and they can either let you know why it something was done a specific way and/or reach out to the moderator that handled the suggestion to get more information.

This would be great for Germany. +1

2 Likes

I would like to share information about the M-41GTI with @RussiaRX9R providing the information.

( If you have any questions, I’ll help translate.)

3 Likes

a great and LT for germany.
+1 from me!

1 Like

Wouldn’t it be clearer if a comment was left in the thread explaining it to everyone?

1 Like

Would be a wonderful addition to Japanese ground with the new Thai (+?) subtree! +1

2 Likes

I thnk we’ve seen that in the case of such vehicles, like the F-20, it goes to the producer nation.
Unless it was a purpose built variant for a specific nation, which this is not.
In anycase, i would be in favour of both Thailand and Germany getting this, like the DF105 for both France and Germany.

1 Like

@Chris4win

I think because by the forum standards - if it was never adopted, then the nation which actually tested the vehicle would get them. Germany didnt test the vehicle but Thailand did so it was designated as a Thai vehicle as a result.

Of course there are always vehicles that were never operated by anyone, suggestions for these vehicles are just sorted by the nation that actually tested them

image

1 Like

This standard is very clearly not enforced evenly. There are numerous suggested Chinese export vehicles that have been tested and even purchased by other nations, yet they still remain suggested under China with some having duplicate suggestions for both China and the other nation in question. The ST-1BR is probably the most clear example. It was a variant of the ST-1 specifically meant for and tested by Brazil, yet it was approved for suggestion under China.

At the end of the day, I don’t really care where this suggestion is placed on the forums and I am not looking to start an argument, however, I stand by my opinion that this vehicle belongs primarily to Germany though I would not be opposed to Japan or both getting it.

6 Likes

I suppose you could comment on the suggestion to have it placed under the Other-Nations tag since I do think you are right, the PLA doesnt seem to have tested the vehicle and neither China nor Brazil has yet to adopt the vehicle so it really should be placed under a Brazilian tag.

This particular vehicle is pretty popular within the the Thai subtree peeps so its probably why it got caught so quickly and the tag modified to Other-Nations lol. Still, even if this is clearly a new modification and upgrade, once this gets implemented - people will still be shouting Copy & Paste, which is just utterly wrong.

2 Likes

Agreed, if one country MUST get it, it should be Germany, and then it could be given to Japan as well, similarly to the Stingray light tank for the US

4 Likes

Personally, I prefer this one to be on the Japanese tech tree just because the leKPz 41 is already a bit of an upgrade over the regular M41, while the Japanese TT just has a regular one.

This one would not have HEAT-FS probably and it seems to lack a .50 cal. Really this would be an inferior version of the leKPz 41 in the German Tech Tree, but in the Japanese Tech Tree - this would be an upgrade and an option for a mobile vehicle within the ~6.7 BR that I think this would be perfect in (that is .50 cal proof at least).

Also almost all picture you can find on this thing is just during its time being tested in Thailand, in its Thai livery.

How would this be inferior to the German one? This one has a stabilizer, thermals, and a better suspension. Also, it’s a German prototype built on a German M41 with the G in GTI literally meaning German, so it should go to Germany No? Should be added as German TT and Japanese Squadron/premium (or maybe a battle pass?)

3 Likes

+1

Remind me again what the F stands for in the DF-105 only in the German tree.

France? I never said the French shouldn’t get it.

1 Like

The point is the name doesn’t have anything to do with the placement. A similar situation to this is the Class 3P where Gaijin said they would have put it in the SADF tree instead if it was in game when the event happened.