M26 SHOULD return to 6.3

[FlipAllTheTables]

@TyTheGuy27

On the M26 vs Panthers debate, the M26 can easily UFP Panthers with APCR, while Panthers struggle against the Pershing.

US 90 mm with M304 APCR has an over 50% chance to go through 80 mm RHA at 55° up to about high 200 meters of distance.

Panther 75 mm with Pzgr.39/42 APCBC does the same agaisnt 101.6 mm CHA at 46° also up to about high 200 meters of distance.

The idea that one of these tanks “can easily UFP” while the other “struggles” is completely silly given that the distances at which they can penetrate are basically identical with the aforementioned rounds. Not to mention the M26 has to specifically switch from its otherwise main round (M82 APCBC) while the Panther does not.

[Apollo_1641]

IMO APCR is a terrible ammunition, it will frequently bounce on slightly angled or overlapping surfaces, and the low post-pen damage isn’t worth the trouble. Having it loaded in the gun is a liability, and reloading to APCR when you need it is too slow.

The M26 is maybe more mobile than the T26E5, but not sufficiently so that I’d consider giving up the armor. At 6.7 the standard M26 is essentially made of paper, and every extra millimeter of RHA counts.

@TyTheGuy27

I’m not sure where you got the idea that a Panther D can easily pen an M26, but that is simply not the case.

I beg to differ.

As you can see, the Panther can penetrate almost entire hull of M26 at 400m, up to around 600m. At ranges under 200m it will penetrate angled M26.

On the other hand, with the penetration increase of M82 (from 173mm to 185mm), M26 can technically penetrate hull of Panther at extreme close range (100m), but ONLY if at a perfect head-on without extra angle. At these ranges this is far from consistent, and the enemy will almost always be at a degree of angle. Beyond 200m, or if the enemy is slightly angled, your only option is to go for MG port, or the standard turret weakspots a 76mm Sherman would go for.

Ignore the green color, look at the numbers. The penetration mapping is bugged, as you can see in the pic, M82 will not penetrate.

[Apollo_1641]

I agree the M26 is a better tank than Panther, but not 0.7 BR better.

IMO with the Panthers at 6.0, the M26 would still be reasonable at 6.3, with a 0.3 BR difference.

[FlipAllTheTables]

You’re shooting from above in the screenshots you’ve provided. This makes the results a bit skewed.

For example late M82 can’t even go through the UFP of the Panther at 30 meters, and this is something I have already tested and proven in another, unrelated topic.

7,5/5,5 cm Pak 41 KwK 41 or Waffe 0725

This is incredibly far from the truth. My assumption is that you are using protection analysis and aligning your camera angle with the barrel, like this:

Spoiler

[Captura de ecrã 2023-07-20 023407]

Using protection analysis like this generally leads to awfully inaccurate results, because the shot comes from much further above than what actually happens in level ground. In this precise case, I am shooting 49º when the actual plate angle is 55º. A generally significantly more accurate way to use…

But the same applies to the Panther, and at 400 meters it is highly unlikely to go through the UFP of the M26 (obviously assuming flat level ground with neither vehicle having the high ground).

[Apollo_1641]

I agree my testing shots there maybe weren’t the best.

Then again, it’s difficult to take into account the different factors that would come into play in a real WT match.

For example, the Panther is a much taller tank than M26, which means at closer ranges the Panther would be firing down on M26, and M26 up at Panther, if that makes any sense.

So in practice, the M26 stands no chance of penetrating UFP of Panther.

[Apollo_1641]

[FlipAllTheTables]

With APCR is it unironically plausible up to about 200 meters.

I have used APCR for this purpose a couple times in the M26 and M36.

Besides that, tank height barely matters at any distance beyond 50 meters.

[Apollo_1641]

Vid doesn’t work for me :-/

And using APCR comes with a huge drawback: you’d be using APCR

[FlipAllTheTables]

M304 APCR for the 90 mm M3 is perhaps the only “good” APCR in the game.

[Sweedish_Gunner]

I’d agree, the M26 shouldn’t be at the same BR as it’s up armoured versions.

The IS-2 needs to go back to 6.3 and lose the D round as well.

[Apollo_1641]

Maybe it’s better than the others, but still we’re comparing two medium tanks here.

For one of them to penetrate, it requires loading an oddball ammunition type with sketchy characteristics and which cannot be relied upon.

The other just shoots centremass with standard ammo, nuking the entire fighting compartment

[FlipAllTheTables]

Yes, and I have previously pointed out that having to load APCR is worse than being able to penetrate with normal APCBC-HE.

However that doesn’t change the fact that it does work.

[Apollo_1641]

Ok, it does work, we agree on that.

However, keep in mind that we’re comparing two mediums which of right now are 0.7 BR apart, almost an entire BR spread.

And the one that’s 0.7 higher has to take special precautions (so to say) in order to kill the lower one. I just find that a little absurd.

[Razielkaine]

M26 I would argue is a 6.7 tank at its best. Better then panther but worse then king tiger. Nothing about the hunk if junk makes it higher then 6.7

[PigtailedSlime]

It can’t pen anything Russian frontally unless it aims for tiny weak spots and it’s armor might as well be paper. It would be great if it was reclassified as a light tank and given smoke grenades though

[PigtailedSlime]

This more or less just proves that the m26 should be at or lower than the panther in BR. Though all the Panthers should be reclassified as either tank destroyers or heavy tanks in my opinion while the m26 is a more traditional medium tank.

[Malekitth]

Or just shoot the lower plate/gun breech , you will even kill a T-80 like this with this round. And no , lower plate is not tiny.

[Malekitth]

D round is trash anyways , the other round is better. Anyone who understands game penetration mechanics will not use the D round.
D round is worse Vs angles

[MotorolaCRO]

Panthers have smaller weakspots for their BR than T-72s and T-64s do.

[Malekitth]

İt’s a very hard task to aim at the panther cheeks with gun dispersion. The mantlet is volumetric hell