M1a2 sep v3

[An_Pigeon]

@Ge_Low-psn

Ufp? Theres like 13 mm armour there what are u on abt? Even low tier tanks can easily pen there if theyre at a good angle.

what are you on about 13mm of armour on an abrams xD , low tier adn I mean rank 2 can one tap a CR 2 what’s you’re point? they can go clean through the LFP on it.

@Ge_Low-psn

And who the hell shoots ufp on an abrams? U can easily shoot drivers port and one tap.

An abrams can easily do the saem to a T90?
Turret ring, LFP, drivers port, breach, roof.
etc etc.

The abrams is far better than teh T90M.

@Frieren14

According to Statshark T-80BVM has 54% winrate, SEP V2 43,4%; thats the reverse of dogging them

An Pigeon:

The US winrates which is well known by now have been plagued by one death leavers for years.
Hell they at one point sat at 30 percentish. Which if we look at the chinese abrams when it dropped having the highest win rate of any top tier in game , proves that it was nothing to do with the tank.

@_Renzo knows what I mean US teams are to blame, not the abrams, are they perfect? no, but they are extremely good. They don’t deserve a massive leg up with the M829A3 / 4 being able to lol pen more than they already do.

@Frieren14

.7 seconds experted and 1 second ace (which probably represents less than 1% of the players)

An Pigeon:

No, the T80BVM has a 6.4 seconds reload mate with teh 3bm60, unless you’re rolling around at top tier with the 3BM42.
That is something which was quite clear when the patch came through.

@Frieren14

This is very debatable, Abrams is very easy to pen and not trolly like T series with their armoured autoloader. Every hull pen you get your turret and engine is disabled.

The Abrams is trolly mate, fk sake they are my most used top tier MBTs xD

@Frieren14

Every hull pen you get your turret and engine is disabled.

No , it’s not.
If you get hull penned and they take out the turret and engine, you’d have died before so that is a moot point, as well as that, if you aren’t positioning like a total cabbage then that doesn’t happen often.
Compared to if you fire around through the breach/ turret top of a T90M it’ll take out the auto loader as well.

@Frieren14

But i woulld gladly lose Commander thermal, 0,7s of reload and 5º of depression to have the ability to randomly eat APFSDS on the side and not being lol-penned frontally.

It doesn’t eat APFSDS on the side man, you just shoot under the ERA.

the relaod is not 0.7 seconds faster, it is 1.1 seconds faster I should know I’ve got both the BVM and the m1A2 and Sep, expert crew is 5.3 second reload VS 6.4 .

@Sandwich1776

USSR doesnt use long rod sabot,

well aware of that, hence why I said would get something. Just like they generated L23 for the British tree which is a false round.

@Sandwich1776

second issue is most sabots that arent DU have problems with shattering at high angle

I know, it’s why not only abrams has a high angle on it’s UFP, but IRL that LFP at the ranges we’re at in Warthunder few hundreds meters wouldn’t be anywhere near as effective as it’s touted to be. Same as most armour isn’t

@Sandwich1776

Which is why the Abrams UFP is at such an angle to deflect and ricochet most if not all sabot shots.

into the turret face yeah? wonder why that is, cause maybe taking direct sabot rounds to the LFP composites wasn’t intended due to how they are used.

[An_Pigeon]

2 man crew in the T80 repairs slower than a 3 man crew in an abrams.

That’s my point.
It’s not as slow as a 2 man crew abrams repair but it’s still slwoer than a 4 man crew dropped to 3
they have an extra multiplier to work through witht eh 4 man crew as it goes .
4 crew.
3 crew
2 crew.

Oppose to

3 crew,
2 crew
dead

[Ge_Low-psn]

@An Pigeon

what are you on about 13mm of armour on an abrams xD , low tier adn I mean rank 2 can one tap a CR 2 what’s you’re point? they can go clean through the LFP on it.

Ufp- Upper front plate….
And where did u get cr2 from? What do u mean by CR 2?
And a rank ii can NOT go clean through Lower fron plate on an abrams. The lfp on abrams is like 360mm

@An Pigeon

An abrams can easily do the saem to a T90?
Turret ring, LFP, drivers port, breach, roof.
etc etc.

I almost cant comprehend what your saying. But if im understanding u right u think a t90m is lesser armored than an abrams?😂 it’s not like a t90m can’t pen an abrams in exactly those spots…

You where complaining about UFP on the abrams, i said its better to shoot drivers port.
And i never said anything about a t90m? What…

@An Pigeon

The abrams is far better than teh T90M.

Still, i never said that the abrams was bad.

@An Pigeon

They don’t deserve a massive leg up with the M829A3 / 4 being able to lol pen more than they already do.

Won’t do any diffrence, everyone can kill everyone in top tier.

@An Pigeon

No, the T80BVM has a 6.4 seconds reload mate with teh 3bm60, unless you’re rolling around at top tier with the 3BM42.
That is something which was quite clear when the patch came through.

U sure?

@An Pigeon

the relaod is not 0.7 seconds faster, it is 1.1 seconds faster I should know I’ve got both the BVM and the m1A2 and Sep, expert crew is 5.3 second reload VS 6.4 .

Do you know what ace crew is my friend?

Edit: i was proven wrong about the reload, my bad.

[Abyss_Revenant]

@Ge_Low-psn

U sure?

Nobody reads patch notes and developer diaries.

[Ge_Low-psn]

My bad.

Didn’t know there where different reloads for different rounds, in guessing it has something to do with the charges?

[Abyss_Revenant]

@Ge_Low-psn

Didn’t know there where different reloads for different rounds, in guessing it has something to do with the charges?

@Stona_WT

However, the longer modern APFSDS rounds used by the T-80 series tanks can’t be stored in adjacent autoloader trays due to their length. This reduces the rate of fire, as the carousel has to be indexed by two positions instead of one. Consequently, loading a 3BM60 in the T‑80BVM will take at least about 6.4 seconds, since the autoloader must rotate by an additional position during the cycle.

Revising the Rate of Fire of the T-64, T-80, Т-72, ZTZ96, ZTZ99 Series and VT4, VT4A1 Tanks

Hey everyone! Today we’d like to share the results of our study on the documentation of automatic loaders found on the T-64/T-80 family of tanks. [crowd] Early vehicles in this series had a reload time of 7.1 seconds, while later vehicles (starting with the T-80U and T-80UD) had a reload time of 6.5 seconds. These estimates were based on technical descriptions, which stated a minimum reload time of 7.1 seconds. For later vehicles, the results were based on Greek trials with the T-80U, where it…

[Ge_Low-psn]

Ahh i see, thank u!

[Jswartyusc-live]

at this point idec if it is doa, which I don’t think it will be but some do. I just want a new thing to grind for in the tech tree with the high possibility of it having an aps system.

[_Renzo]

The Abrams beats the BVM in firepower, gun depression and reverse speed. Which makes it much much much morr flexible and better in the hands of decent-good players.

[Necrons31467]

@Frieren14

Brother, the front plate of the Abrams can be penned even by 105mm DM33 reliably

Name me a SINGLE 12.0 - 12.7 MBT whos lower front plate cannot be penetrated by DM33 at 2000 meters distance.

@Frieren14

According to Statshark T-80BVM has 54% winrate, SEP V2 43,4%; thats the reverse of dogging them

You also should not blame the vehicle for it being stuck with (generally) awful players.

@Frieren14

.7 seconds experted and 1 second ace (which probably represents less than 1% of the players)

1.1 seconds when using 3BM-60*
1.4 seconds aced*

@Ge_Low-psn

Please don’t have ‘‘Consider camera vertical angle’’ enabled, or simply zoom all the way out and place the camera level with the ground.

Because right now you’re massively distorting things like so:

Here’san explanation on how to get accurate results with the Armour Analysis tool:

[An_Pigeon]

@Ge_Low-psn

And where did u get cr2 from? What do u mean by CR 2?
And a rank ii can NOT go clean through Lower fron plate on an abrams. The lfp on abrams is like 360mm

CR2 is the Challanger 2 MBT , rank 2 / 3 tanks can one shot it through the lower frontal plate.

@Ge_Low-psn

Ufp- Upper front plate….

that 13mm is the thickness, of a singular outside plate. The tank has an effective UFP thickness of 190MM at an extreme angle which the vast majority of darts in game cannot penetrate

@Ge_Low-psn

I almost cant comprehend what your saying. But if im understanding u right u think a t90m is lesser armored than an abrams?😂 it’s not like a t90m can’t pen an abrams in exactly those spots…

No one said it’s lesser armoured?
What ?
The T90M is less mobile, worse reload by nearly 2 seconds, worse survivability. .

I gave you a list of weak points the M1A2 can pen, with ease I may add, on the T90M.

T

@Ge_Low-psn

Won’t do any diffrence, everyone can kill everyone in top tier.

It literally will make a huge difference at top tier it would give the Abrams a huge advantage over literally every other tree in game.

@Ge_Low-psn

U sure?

yes I am sure you clod, look it up with 3BM60 it has a 6.4 second reload.

@Ge_Low-psn

Do you know what ace crew is my friend?

Ace crew doesn’t effect auto laoders again.
go look at it with 3BM60

@Ge_Low-psn

Edit: i was proven wrong about the reload, my bad.

Course you were, so if you can’t even get that right then what else are you getting wrong.

[Ge_Low-psn]

@An Pigeon

CR2 is the Challanger 2 MBT , rank 2 / 3 tanks can one shot it through the lower frontal plate.

👍🏻

@An Pigeon

that 13mm is the thickness, of a singular outside plate. The tank has an effective UFP thickness of 190MM at an extreme angle which the vast majority of darts in game cannot penetrate

Okay forget the ufp, i just thought it was weird u where complaining abt it. Cause literally no one shoots there.

@An Pigeon

No one said it’s lesser armoured?
What ?
The T90M is less mobile, worse reload by nearly 2 seconds, worse survivability. .

I gave you a list of weak points the M1A2 can pen, with ease I may add, on the T90M.

T

I still have no idea why u brought up the t90 in the first place. This was a convo about the sep v3.

And i have NEVER said the t90m was better than the sep v2, russian tanks are honestly ass ingame. (Except bmpt)

@An Pigeon

It literally will make a huge difference at top tier it would give the Abrams a huge advantage over literally every other tree in game.

Real sources say the m829a2 has penetration values closer to 700mm, ingame it’s 629mm.

The m829a3 is estimated at 700-800mm, do u really think gajin will give it it’s actual penetration values? No ofc not.

The m829a3 wouldn’t magically make the abrams way better than every tank ingame.

@An Pigeon

Course you were, so if you can’t even get that right then what else are you getting wrong.

I corrected my self, Mistakes happen.

[An_Pigeon]

@Ge_Low-psn

Okay forget the ufp, i just thought it was weird u where complaining abt it. Cause literally no one shoots there.

And no one shoots the UFP on other vehicles either ? so what was the point refering to it.

@Ge_Low-psn

I still have no idea why u brought up the t90 in the first place. This was a convo about the sep v3.

The original response with T80BVM and T90M being brought up aren’t to you, that’s why you’ve no idea why it’s being talked about.
The addition of M829A4 would allow it , refered I said to another, UFP cleanly through the armour of stuff like T90m, and someone else said 80BVM can UFP the M1A2. Which it cant.

@Ge_Low-psn

And i have NEVER said the t90m was better than the sep v2, russian tanks are honestly ass ingame. (Except bmpt)

An Pigeon:

Armour wise it is , that’s it.
we can both agree russian tanks are crap though, I seriously hate using them bar very specific ones.

@Ge_Low-psn

Real sources say the m829a2 has penetration values closer to 700mm, ingame it’s 629mm.

Real sources state L27, DM53, 3BM60, etc etc all have higher penetration values which they used to in game until they swapped over to the current system of penetration calculation.

@Ge_Low-psn

The m829a3 wouldn’t magically make the abrams way better than every tank ingame.

An Pigeon:

It would quite literally make any tank which has to semi rely on armour. obsolete compared to abrams.
It would onetap russian MBTs through teh front, it would go clean through the UFP of the STRVs, it would absolutely make the M1s the META for the game.

How can you say, giving it a round Which can pen literally everything at top teir with ease, wouldn’t make it better than every tank in game?

@Ge_Low-psn

Real sources say the m829a2 has penetration values closer to 700mm, ingame it’s 629mm.

Which BTW it’s still the highest penning convential round in game at 120mm out of the shorter L/44 caliber cannons.
Only the long barreled 2A6, 2A7 have higher penetration at top tier.

the round isn’t the issue with abrams, the firepower is literally second to none.
It’s mobility isn’t an issue either.

The issue with abrams is people want it to have super armour, super munitions and mobility, when in reality it’s not like that , at all:
It should get it’s turret ring volumetrics corrected n such. But other than that not much else can be changed.

[exeisdefeatable]

Is low profile crows only on M1A2 SEPV3? or some SEP V2 also had them?

[Ge_Low-psn]

@An Pigeon

And no one shoots the UFP on other vehicles either ? so what was the point refering to it.

Well
U where the one referring to it but anyways.

@An Pigeon

The original response with T80BVM and T90M being brought up aren’t to you, that’s why you’ve no idea why it’s being talked about.
The addition of M829A4 would allow it , refered I said to another, UFP cleanly through the armour of stuff like T90m, and someone else said 80BVM can UFP the M1A2. Which it cant.

Ohhhh i see, thank u for clarifying!

@An Pigeon

Armour wise it is , that’s it.
we can both agree russian tanks are crap though, I seriously hate using them bar very specific ones.

Yep.

@An Pigeon

Real sources state L27, DM53, 3BM60, etc etc all have higher penetration values which they used to in game until they swapped over to the current system of penetration calculation.

Yeah i don’t think gaijin will increase the penetration values of the round we have right now, cause so many tanks have them. I think they’re plan is to introduce new rounds to all top top tier tanks with better penetration.

@An Pigeon

It would quite literally make any tank which has to semi rely on armour. obsolete compared to abrams.
It would onetap russian MBTs through teh front, it would go clean through the UFP of the STRVs, it would absolutely make the M1s the META for the game.

How can you say, giving it a round Which can pen literally everything at top teir with ease, wouldn’t make it better than every tank in game?

I think they will give it like 690mm pen. That wouldn’t be able to one tap era on russian tanks? Nor ufp on STRVs. I understand what ur trying to say but i don’t see gaijin allowing the us to have an op round while everyone else is stuck with bad rounds and bad armour.

@An Pigeon

Which BTW it’s still the highest penning convential round in game at 120mm out of the shorter L/44 caliber cannons.
Only the long barreled 2A6, 2A7 have higher penetration at top tier.

the round isn’t the issue with abrams, the firepower is literally second to none.
It’s mobility isn’t an issue either.

The issue with abrams is people want it to have super armour, super munitions and mobility, when in reality it’s not like that , at all:
It should get it’s turret ring volumetrics corrected n such. But other than that not much else can be changed.

I think the Abrams’ armor is generally solid, but there are areas where it could be better, which the SEP V3 improves on, with better turret cheek and hull protection. I’d also really like to have an APS to give it at least a chance against ATGMs. On top of that, I just want something new to grind in the U.S. tech tree. And I completely agree about the turret ring/turret basket

[Ge_Low-psn]

@exeisdefeatable

Is low profile crows only on M1A2 SEPV3? or some SEP V2 also had them?

Not sure but i think some of them have them.

[An_Pigeon]

@Ge_Low-psn

U where the one referring to it but anyways.

An Pigeon:

Again was due to talking with another person, maybe I’ve replied to you both and the comments got mixed.
The mention of the UFP was due to the fact that the other party said it’s justifiable to give the M1A2 M829A4 , as it is anti ERA even if it didn’t get a massive pen buff, but got access to anti ERA capabilities.
Which I said it would allow it to UFP the vast majority of tanks which are heavily reliant on their armour, I mean the T90M isn’t great in many ways, but you can rely on it’s UFP if you knowhow to use it.
With this ammo abrams would scythe through it leaving it an even worse machine.

@Ge_Low-psn

Ohhhh i see, thank u for clarifying!

An Pigeon:

Aye it’s likely what’s happened throughout the comments xD tends to happen when replying to more than one person ina longer thread.

@Ge_Low-psn

Yeah i don’t think gaijin will increase the penetration values of the round we have right now, cause so many tanks have them. I think they’re plan is to introduce new rounds to all top top tier tanks with better penetration.

An Pigeon:

The issue is though, british CR2 tanks, cannot fire a newer round bar L28A1 which would realisitically be the same as L27 penetration wise, it’s due to it having an anti ERA tip or such which is why it’s different.

Nations like china as well have access to their top rounds, USSR as well:
They cannot justifiably add a round like M829A4 or A3 anywhere near what it’s capable of IRL without upsetting a huge part of the playerbase.

Like even if they go well we can add DM73 or whatever ot tanks like CR3 it still doesn’t change the fact that the other MBTs have a round like L27 as their primary.
I use the CR2 as an example as it’s the easiest to use tbh.

@Ge_Low-psn

I think they will give it like 690mm pen. That wouldn’t be able to one tap era on russian tanks? Nor ufp on STRVs.

You can already UFP the STRV 122s just shoot the drivers side, hell I do it with the Khalid xD ( take the 9.3 to top tier for a giggle)

@Ge_Low-psn

but i don’t see gaijin allowing the us to have an op round while everyone else is stuck with bad rounds and bad armour.

that’s my point, USA already has the strongest 120MM round out of an L/44 cannon as it is. They got a 5 second reload before anyone else did apart from CR2, which shouldn’t of been arbitrarily slammed on every vehicle.
CR2 had it as a balancer as it’s performance was dwindling.

abrams has okay armour, extremely middling, not bad like ariete, merkava etc but not good either.
It has great mobility and firepower.
IT realistically doesn’t need a buff at all TBH.

@Ge_Low-psn

. I’d also really like to have an APS to give it at least a chance against ATGMs. On top of that, I just want something new to grind in the U.S. tech tree. And I completely agree about the turret ring/turret basket

oh ofc if the sep V3 comes i hope they give it the APS and such. We will see though. Those are genuine things that would make it better, not like otehrs want just a lol pen one tap death round.

Also look at the cheiftain 900 it has the correct hull armours and values while older models are left to rot, it’s possible they do the samewith abrams

[Abyss_Revenant]

V2 also had them

[Ge_Low-psn]

As cool as high profile crows looks I’m looking forward to getting low profile crows on sep v3. To be clear i know there aren’t many people in top tier that actually takes HE with them but the crows is a massive HE weak spot, i almost never get shot there but the few times I’ve been shot there i get a little irritated lol

[Abyss_Revenant]