M1a2 sep v3

[An_Pigeon]

@Frieren14

A3 and A4 just need to be effective against ERA, they dont need to have lol pen (as they dont have, M829A3 in simulations is estimated to have less than 700mm of pen). If they dont model the anti-ERA capability, theres no point putting them in game.

again they don’t model anti ERA in game, it’s realistically not needed at all either.

@Frieren14

Also, would you call M829A4 unbalanced if added rn? Abrams is one of the weakest MBTs armor wise in game, adding M829A4 would just make them pen UPF of T-80BVMs and T-90Ms as easy as they pen the Abrams UPF

Yes I’d call it extremely unbalanced, the M1A2s arenot some of the weakest armoured MBTs in game at all, the leclercs, Arietes, Type 10s , Chinese MBTs all have worse protection than abrams.

The ABrams right now is one of the top contenders in the game lol, it’s one of the top 3 MBTs in game from it’s combination of mobility, firepower and reliable but not great protection.

Also T80BVM and T90M cannot pen the UFP on the abrams, they can penetrate the weak points on it, same as an abrams can more easily penetrate the weak points on a damn T series MBT.
Why on earth would it need a better round than what it has now, other than to be Biased towards a US MBT.

[Frieren14]

Brother, the front plate of the Abrams can be penned even by 105mm DM33 reliably

[_Renzo]

@Frieren14

Also, would you call M829A4 unbalanced if added rn? Abrams is one of the weakest MBTs armor wise in game, adding M829A4 would just make them pen UFP of T-80BVMs and T-90Ms as easy as they pen the Abrams FP

Yes it would be. The Abrams has strengths that compensate for said weaker armor (still far from “one of the weakest”).

For the T-series having armor is one of their only somewhat strong points. Removing that leaves pretty much nothing lol.

@Frieren14

Brother, the front plate of the Abrams can be penned even by 105mm DM33 reliably

Just FYI, your screenshot shows 120mm DM33.

[CharAznable3]

Gaijin follows the if I can use them and needs them they get them philosophy

That is why export stuff gets weapons the country using them never bought because tomorrow they in theory could.

Also works in the opposite some stuff stays in the warehouse

[Frieren14]

Yes, i know. The “standard” at top tier is facing 120mm DM33 levels of pen, not 105, it was just to show tho the other guy that top tier russia can easily pen Abrams FP.

Also, what are the strengths that compensate for the Abrams? Mobility? BVM has better, expect the reverse. Gun handling? BVM has better, and can aim through engine deck. Only real advantage is gun depression and reload.

[An_Pigeon]

@Frieren14

Brother, the front plate of the Abrams can be penned even by 105mm DM33 reliably

That is it’s lower frontal plate mate

[Frieren14]

ye m8, no one shoots the UFP because its trolly and theres no need to it. The initial “UFP” comment was a mistake, but kinda easy to get.

[An_Pigeon]

@Frieren14

not 105, it was just to show tho the other guy that top tier russia can easily pen Abrams FP.

And top tier USA abrams dog on the Russian counter parts.

@Frieren14

BVM has better, expect the reverse.

So 50 percent of it’s mobility is worse? got it.
Gun handling the 80BVM is not better than teh abrams, they’re on par.
Firepower ? Abrams has faster fire rate by 1.4 seconds, aced, 1.1 seconds expert.

Thermals/ optics? Abrams M1A2 etc has Commanders thermals, T80BVM doesn’t.

@Frieren14

Only real advantage is gun depression and reload.

Two huge advantages?
As well as the Abrams has 4 crew, meaning faster repairs etc as well.
More surviveable too.

[Abyss_Revenant]

@An Pigeon

meaning faster repairs

As far as I know, even if there is no member in the crew, his bonus to repair is evenly spread over all the others

[Ge_Low-psn]

@An Pigeon

T90M cannot pen the UFP on the abrams,

Ufp? Theres like 13 mm armour there what are u on abt? Even low tier tanks can easily pen there if theyre at a good angle.
And who the hell shoots ufp on an abrams? U can easily shoot drivers port and one tap.

[Frieren14]

@An Pigeon

And top tier USA abrams dog on the Russian counter parts.

Frieren14:

According to Statshark T-80BVM has 54% winrate, SEP V2 43,4%; thats the reverse of dogging them

@An Pigeon

Firepower ? Abrams has faster fire rate by 1.4 seconds, aced, 1.1 seconds expert.

.7 seconds experted and 1 second ace (which probably represents less than 1% of the players)

@An Pigeon

As well as the Abrams has 4 crew, meaning faster repairs etc as well.
More surviveable too.

This is very debatable, Abrams is very easy to pen and not trolly like T series with their armoured autoloader. Every hull pen you get your turret and engine is disabled.

You got fair points. But i woulld gladly lose Commander thermal, 0,7s of reload and 5º of depression to have the ability to randomly eat APFSDS on the side and not being lol-penned frontally.

[Ge_Low-psn]

@Frieren14

According to Statshark T-80BVM has 54% winrate, SEP V2 43,4%; thats the reverse of dogging them

Thats cause us teammates suck, this was proven by the taiwan abrams.

[Abyss_Revenant]

@Frieren14

According to Statshark T-80BVM has 54% winrate, SEP V2 43,4%; thats the reverse of dogging them

In January, their win rate is almost the same.

[Ge_Low-psn]

I don’t know why but i always thought the sep v3 was stuck with the same old gen 2 thermals from the sep v2 (FLIR, Forward looking infrared)
But this text from army recognition confirms that the sep v3 actually gets gen 3 thermals (IFLIR, improver forward looking infrared)

M1A2 Sep V3

[Sandwich1776]

@An Pigeon

you realise USSR, and other nations would get something comparable to keep up.

USSR doesnt use long rod sabot, second issue is most sabots that arent DU have problems with shattering at high angle. Which is why the Abrams UFP is at such an angle to deflect and ricochet most if not all sabot shots.

[An_Pigeon]

@Ge_Low-psn

Ufp? Theres like 13 mm armour there what are u on abt? Even low tier tanks can easily pen there if theyre at a good angle.

what are you on about 13mm of armour on an abrams xD , low tier adn I mean rank 2 can one tap a CR 2 what’s you’re point? they can go clean through the LFP on it.

@Ge_Low-psn

And who the hell shoots ufp on an abrams? U can easily shoot drivers port and one tap.

An abrams can easily do the saem to a T90?
Turret ring, LFP, drivers port, breach, roof.
etc etc.

The abrams is far better than teh T90M.

@Frieren14

According to Statshark T-80BVM has 54% winrate, SEP V2 43,4%; thats the reverse of dogging them

An Pigeon:

The US winrates which is well known by now have been plagued by one death leavers for years.
Hell they at one point sat at 30 percentish. Which if we look at the chinese abrams when it dropped having the highest win rate of any top tier in game , proves that it was nothing to do with the tank.

@_Renzo knows what I mean US teams are to blame, not the abrams, are they perfect? no, but they are extremely good. They don’t deserve a massive leg up with the M829A3 / 4 being able to lol pen more than they already do.

@Frieren14

.7 seconds experted and 1 second ace (which probably represents less than 1% of the players)

An Pigeon:

No, the T80BVM has a 6.4 seconds reload mate with teh 3bm60, unless you’re rolling around at top tier with the 3BM42.
That is something which was quite clear when the patch came through.

@Frieren14

This is very debatable, Abrams is very easy to pen and not trolly like T series with their armoured autoloader. Every hull pen you get your turret and engine is disabled.

The Abrams is trolly mate, fk sake they are my most used top tier MBTs xD

@Frieren14

Every hull pen you get your turret and engine is disabled.

No , it’s not.
If you get hull penned and they take out the turret and engine, you’d have died before so that is a moot point, as well as that, if you aren’t positioning like a total cabbage then that doesn’t happen often.
Compared to if you fire around through the breach/ turret top of a T90M it’ll take out the auto loader as well.

@Frieren14

But i woulld gladly lose Commander thermal, 0,7s of reload and 5º of depression to have the ability to randomly eat APFSDS on the side and not being lol-penned frontally.

It doesn’t eat APFSDS on the side man, you just shoot under the ERA.

the relaod is not 0.7 seconds faster, it is 1.1 seconds faster I should know I’ve got both the BVM and the m1A2 and Sep, expert crew is 5.3 second reload VS 6.4 .

@Sandwich1776

USSR doesnt use long rod sabot,

well aware of that, hence why I said would get something. Just like they generated L23 for the British tree which is a false round.

@Sandwich1776

second issue is most sabots that arent DU have problems with shattering at high angle

I know, it’s why not only abrams has a high angle on it’s UFP, but IRL that LFP at the ranges we’re at in Warthunder few hundreds meters wouldn’t be anywhere near as effective as it’s touted to be. Same as most armour isn’t

@Sandwich1776

Which is why the Abrams UFP is at such an angle to deflect and ricochet most if not all sabot shots.

into the turret face yeah? wonder why that is, cause maybe taking direct sabot rounds to the LFP composites wasn’t intended due to how they are used.

[An_Pigeon]

2 man crew in the T80 repairs slower than a 3 man crew in an abrams.

That’s my point.
It’s not as slow as a 2 man crew abrams repair but it’s still slwoer than a 4 man crew dropped to 3
they have an extra multiplier to work through witht eh 4 man crew as it goes .
4 crew.
3 crew
2 crew.

Oppose to

3 crew,
2 crew
dead

[Ge_Low-psn]

@An Pigeon

what are you on about 13mm of armour on an abrams xD , low tier adn I mean rank 2 can one tap a CR 2 what’s you’re point? they can go clean through the LFP on it.

Ufp- Upper front plate….
And where did u get cr2 from? What do u mean by CR 2?
And a rank ii can NOT go clean through Lower fron plate on an abrams. The lfp on abrams is like 360mm

@An Pigeon

An abrams can easily do the saem to a T90?
Turret ring, LFP, drivers port, breach, roof.
etc etc.

I almost cant comprehend what your saying. But if im understanding u right u think a t90m is lesser armored than an abrams?😂 it’s not like a t90m can’t pen an abrams in exactly those spots…

You where complaining about UFP on the abrams, i said its better to shoot drivers port.
And i never said anything about a t90m? What…

@An Pigeon

The abrams is far better than teh T90M.

Still, i never said that the abrams was bad.

@An Pigeon

They don’t deserve a massive leg up with the M829A3 / 4 being able to lol pen more than they already do.

Won’t do any diffrence, everyone can kill everyone in top tier.

@An Pigeon

No, the T80BVM has a 6.4 seconds reload mate with teh 3bm60, unless you’re rolling around at top tier with the 3BM42.
That is something which was quite clear when the patch came through.

U sure?

@An Pigeon

the relaod is not 0.7 seconds faster, it is 1.1 seconds faster I should know I’ve got both the BVM and the m1A2 and Sep, expert crew is 5.3 second reload VS 6.4 .

Do you know what ace crew is my friend?

Edit: i was proven wrong about the reload, my bad.

[Abyss_Revenant]

@Ge_Low-psn

U sure?

Nobody reads patch notes and developer diaries.

[Ge_Low-psn]

My bad.

Didn’t know there where different reloads for different rounds, in guessing it has something to do with the charges?