They could also add different types of bases like hardened bunkers etc that require actual bombs to destroy. With the massive empty areas around the outside of the high tier maps there is room to add some interesting things, like bases protected by heavy air defenses that require peeling away in order to hit the base, so rushing in to speed bomb just gets you shot down.
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to be fully honest, i really think the reason the f104S/G are at that br is the bombs, i mostly say bc when the XS lost the ability to bomb it went down from 11.0 to 10.3 in like what, 2 months?, i think the same would happen to the 104s if their bombs got removed
This would be my prefered solution for long term health of the game, but I do still think Napalm needs some rework
Various base types that require different methods of attack. Some would be better with Napalm/CBUs, otehrs regular bombs and maybe even a few that required GBUs and precision hits (though the GPS nerf does create some issue for that idea). They could also come in a range of sizes and a range of defences.
Of course only SB would truly benefit from having all types available. But in ARB. 1-2 “large” and “hardened” targets that need conventional bombs and perhaps a lot of them. Would probably be all that is needed shorter term (The forward airfield could be this target)
No. I dont think it was. The decompression had it move to 11.0 and whilst that was fine on paper. It constantly saw the strong SARH slingers in full uptiers and with no RWRs I imagine that was exceptionally rough.
It probably should be 10.7 though, so maybe the loss of effective base bombing was why it moved down to 10.3. But whilst it may have played a role. I think it was only part of it.
It might… It might not… Gaijin relationship with anything even resembling a mud mover is wierd.
i dont entirely remember where in the forum it was said that they balanced brs based on points per match (or was it SL gained per match, i dont remember very well)
There is this that you might be remembering
Which was the most insane thing ever written.
But, if that was the only thing that mattered. The mig-23s would all be 12.0 as well. So clearly there is more at play
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tbf i have been playing a lot of mig23 br and successful mig23 bomb runs are always in the lower end, like, they either get TKd/crash , a f104/tornado beats them to the base or they get intercepted, i think the few successful bomb runs are what keep them at the br they are
F-104 might, but a Tornado probably wont. At least i’ve yet to do it in my Tornados
That’s a good idea. Also napalm needs to be removed from premium jet fighters. The whole argument of “muh realistic” is boneheaded in the extreme. From a gameplay perspective, it’s borderline useless unless you’re bombing bases or open tops in ground RB the latter of which at that BR are virtually nonexistent. It’s so obvious that it was meant to be a cheap and lazy way to grind up a tech tree and is a godsend for bot farmers looking to sell accounts since in almost every game, premium fighters like the MiG-21 Lazur and F-104S always beat strike aircraft to bases.
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It’s already lowered, and stop demanding lower rewards.
XS didn’t lose its ability to bomb, it never had that ability.
And it was moved to 10.3 due to better attention made.
F-104S would still be 11.3 whether it bombs or not.
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-its not
-it did
it wouldnt
Then why has the F-104S and F-4E never increased in BR due to their bombing ability? Why aren’t they 12.0?
Mig-21Bis in Sweden can’t bomb at all yet is correctly 0.3 BR below the superior F-104S and F-4E and the same BR as Mig-21s that can bomb.
But see the argument for the F-104 shouldn’t be “don’t nerf it cause it’s horribly overtiered and nerfed already so it has to bomb bases” the argument should be to actually fix the F-104 series and the way they’re terribly balanced rn. As a massive F-104 enthusiast and an F-104 main, they should have their base bombing privileges nerfed just like any other fighter. I’d rather have an F-104 that is actually somewhat competitive at its BR but can’t bomb bases very effectively, than an F-104 that is absolutely free food for anybody with a brain and overtiered to hell (reminder there’s an F-104 at 12.0 and it’s not even the worst version to play) but remains in ruins just cause everyone and their mom takes F-104s with minimal fuel and nothing but napalm to spawn, rush some bases, and leave.
The F-104S ASA is in fact 12.0 btw. And as for the regular F-104S, you clearly haven’t played them if you think they are balanced at 11.3 BR. All the Italian F-104s are at least 0.3 too high, and range from mediocre in a downtier to outright useless in an uptier. Try facing F-16s and F-18s, Mirage F1s and Mig-23MLDs in an F-104S. It gets eaten alive. Literally the reason it is so overtiered is because the RP and SL it earns is very high due to base zombers, and the few people who do play them as fighters are usually only people like me who specifically spend large amounts of time learning and playing the F-104 platform only to achieve bearable results. Meanwhile a Mig-23 or Mirage F-1C in the same lobby can fly around and clown on everybody, easily topping the scoreboard. So yes, the F-104 is overtiered very much in part for its RP and SL rewards from bombing, and even with napalm bombs it shouldn’t be 11.3 period.
There have been elaborate suggestions as to how to modify napalm bombs.
A simple one would be: Less damage on impact, slower and longer burn.
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@Mafiat_595 All your post has are false assumptions that sound like projection.
Since you obviously know I’ve played the F-104S when it was over-powered as well as recently.
The fact your post claims F-16A and F-18A are correctly BR’d is proof enough.
13.0’s compression is causing issues all the way down to 11.3, and claiming correctly BR’d F-4Es and F-104Ss are "over-BR’d while citing OP 12.3s is defending those 12.3s staying at that BR.
What are you even on about lmao. I never mentioned the F-16 and F-18 being correctly BR’d I said the F-104S faces them. I have 732 battles in the Italian F-104G, F-104S, and F-104S.ASA combined. I think I know what I’m talking about you donut.
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@Mafiat_595
Your post comes in here claiming Italian tech tree players are wrong, and indirectly arguing that F-18A is correctly BR’d by claiming 11.3s are over-BR’d because of F-18A being 12.3, which is a defense of 13.0’s compression as well as OP 12.3s staying 12.3.
Instead of baiting and insulting others, maybe… just maybe accept that there’s a compression issue at 13.0 that’s causing some issues for 11.3s
Also… implying that the only 11.7 fighter in the game is anywhere close to OP while not even citing the slightly superior JA-37C at 11.3… bad taste.
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Again you are making so many assumptions. What are you even accusing me of? Where are you pulling these random examples out of the air like my list was conclusive and any singular plane I didn’t mention is now exempt from this scrutiny?
Where did I say anything about Italian players, let alone them being “wrong”. I AM AN ITALIAN TECH TREE PLAYER. If anything I’m defending them because they get the short end of the stick and perform better than the average major nation player and thus gaijin over tiers Italian vehicles.
You make assumptions that I claim there’s not a compression issue because I didn’t explicitly deliver a 57 page thesis on the multitude of issues that war thunder faces.
I have never in my life encountered someone who jumps to so many different conclusions so quickly, and frankly I’m impressed!
Yes, there’s a compression issue.
Yes, the problem still exists for the F-104s even if/when 13.0 range gets decompressed. You mentioned the JA37 yourself, better than the F-104S that is the same BR in essentially every single way, save for maybe top speed on the deck.
But please, tell me about the other random vehicle I forgot to mention here and how apparently that means I’m assuming that all Italian players are dumb and indirectly arguing that the F-14B should actually be 10.0 because I didn’t explicitly state it deserves XYZ BR rating.
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These people complain about top tier vehicles etc… yet i bet, that the majority have only played 1 nation at top tier due to the bad grind.