Limit CAS/Helicopters to 4 per match (at a single time), 2 for each team in Ground Realistic Battles

Game Discussion General Discussion
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Reason:

  • CAS/Helicopters do not contribute to the objective, their focus is just to get kills.

  • In a start of a match, Helicopters meet very little SPAA/AA resistance since people only bring them out after people start using planes.

  • Light tanks already have next to no armor and they can’t flank adequately (their only purpose is to flank) if the sky is littered with air vehicles.

  • People with aircrafts/helicopters in their lineups do not care about objective, they care about revenge.

  • You can master tank tactics and strategies against other enemy tanks, you can’t do the same for air vehicles. You can hide, sure, but you won’t be able to help your team by hiding from air vehicles.

  • The maps are designed for ground battles, so there is no natural cover against air vehicles (only some mountains or tall trees).

 I know its too much to remove CAS entirely, I wouldn't want that either, but there needs to be a limit. Especially after sales, there is far too many people in the air, not enough in the ground. CAS serves an important role in this game, but its extremely disingenuous to call it Ground Realistic Battles if half the people aren't in the ground actively playing objective.

Implementing this would change the dynamics for this game, people would not hide more, they would start participating more knowing that there is significantly a less chance to get killed from above. There would also be a benefit for CAS players as a limit in CAS/Helicopters would lead to less people playing SPAA/AA, which gives them an advantage they will need.

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I disagree to a couple of your points:

They contribute by killing tanks that would eventually cap or de-cap the zone, hence contributing to maintain the advantage in the battle. Also they can kill the other CAS/helis as a bonus to limit their effectiveness.

I agree on the point that there are close to no SPAAs. However i’ve found myself in so many situations in which people DO NOT use their 15 cals or whatever they got on top of their tanks to shoot at these helis. I do have certain Air kills with my ZTZs and the reason for that is these early game helis, you can hear them from miles away and if we’re talking about 5-6 tanks heading to a cap point we have a minimum of 5 mgs firing at the thing.

Light tanks are actually some of the most annoying things in a match if used correctly, the fact that you can spot and light somebody up FOR YOUR ENTIRE TEAM and proceed to do that without an actual cooldown (if you don’t miss the spot) is powerful. Also i don’t see why pointing out armor, a 250GB is enough to kill mbts.

I can see the “I’ll spawn in a plane to laser the guy that just killed me”, it does happen ofc. But once again, if you suppress the enemy, forcing them to use SPAAS (meaning they won’t be able to push agaist the MBTs) you are actively contributing to the objective by not allowing the enemy team to cap.

Use SPAAs, i don’t see the point of this comment. (i do, however, see the issue of SPAAs not having enough range against certain targets)

I’ve used buildings (most maps have some sort of wreck or building to take cover) to avoid TV guided munitions. Heck i’ve used slopes to do so, the maps are “fine” when it comes to this.

I don’t agree with the point of limiting CAS players since it will promote a Battlefield style kind of toxicity (who gets the vehicle first has the fun) and also promote getting a kill or two and J-out instead of actually contributing towards the objective.

Also i see the other side of the coin, people with tanks on the ground actively avoiding the Cap points for some reason, ofc it comes with danger of being killed but capping means winning and the amount of RP you gain by winning is massive, and i’m afraid most people do not think about that.

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However, you don’t need SPAA to kill a heli. Any IFV, light tank, or anything with an MG can easily shoot them down.

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Ok first off, limiting CAS would cause major issues. Mainly, having loads of players each round spawning a light tank and rushing a cap then J’ing out to fly an airplane b4 the slots are filled, then there would be loads of players unspawned waiting for a new slot to open up.

It’s important for getting rid of campers and tanks like Jagdtiger.

I’ve only ever seen 3-4 helis spawn at most, so limiting it to 4 wouldn’t help.

It’s not about revenge, it almost never is. The only tanks CAS can effectively “revenge” kill are campers.

Hiding from air vehicles is as simple as sticking next to large objects. The maps with no cover either give 0 cover to the aircraft (e.g s desert maps) And other maps with no cover are just the trash ones that suck in tanks anyways.

It’s exactly the same for air battles (Warthunder started as an airplane game btw), there’s just trees, mountains, and air maybe some buildings.

Oh and lastly, if you’ve been swarmed by planes, then your team has already lost that match.

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I appreciate your reply, but I feel it would be better if people directly helped rather than indirectly. The more we start supposing things, the harder it gets to solve this issue. While CAS targeting campers is beneficial, planes and helis don’t typically switch to tanks after fulfilling their air role. Helicopters can cap objectives, but it’s not common practice.

At the end of the day, I want to fight tanks when I’m playing as a tank. I’m sure aircraft players feel similarly when they’re shot down by SPAA/AA instead of another plane. It’s better to be killed by something within your domain rather than something you can’t fairly defend against.

Regarding the use of MGs against helicopters, many players, including myself, often seek cover upon hearing a helicopter. Newer high-tier players tend to stop moving and scan the sky. While I’ve shot down helicopters with MGs, I’ve also been killed by the same helicopters. I wonder if I’d have survived had I not given away my location. There’s no reward for trying to kill a helicopter; you often just die.

I’m not arguing the importance of light tanks; they play a crucial role. However, the prevalence of air threats discourages their use, leading to a more challenging game dominated by MBTs. Light tanks often double as anti-air, making them prime targets for CAS.

Your point about SPAA preventing enemy caps is situational. I’ve seen SPAA units make incredible comebacks by flanking and taking out multiple MBTs. SPAA is necessary due to the high number of planes, but they’re generally less effective than light tanks in direct combat.

I disagree with your assessment of map cover. The enemy always knows where your spawn is and can use that knowledge, combined with advanced equipment like thermals, to locate players quickly. The static nature of maps gives experienced players an advantage in predicting positions.

Limiting CAS/Helicopters would not lead to toxicity. In GROUND realistic battles, players should primarily stay on the ground. Since complete removal is unrealistic, limiting each team to 2 aerial vehicles at a time makes sense. Planes and helis should not have the power to dictate the course of a ground battle.

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I am glad you read my post, your days are numbered.

(Not a physical threat, I just know you’re a CAS main.)

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You cannot tell me the use of planes in ground realistic battles is how it works in real life.

Tell me, in real life when ground troops need support, do planes magically spawn 5 miles in the air outside the battle field?

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I addressed this in the text wall but for you, I’ll address it again. It’s not as simple as point and shoot at helicopter, especially if you’re a light tanks. If a 30mm cannon wipe out a MBT from above, you think you’re safer in a light tank?

I’m not saying it’s impossible, but this situation shouldn’t happen in this game where light tanks are better suited for flanking/capturing points. Don’t give light tanks the added role of dealing with planes/helis.

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Skill issue.
Right now CAS is unplayable because of ridiculous SP cost for AA.
Мазута…

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CAS/Helicopters focus on kills rather than objectives, rarely switching to ground vehicles to capture zones after eliminating targets. Players often avoid using MGs against helicopters to not reveal their position, resulting in retaliatory strikes from the air. Light tanks are vital for spotting but are discouraged due to air threats, leading to an MBT-dominated game and reducing tactical diversity. While CAS can suppress enemies, it doesn’t align with capturing zones, and SPAA’s situational effectiveness doesn’t address air dominance. Static maps with predictable positions and lack of natural cover put ground vehicles at a disadvantage against air threats, especially with advanced equipment. Limiting CAS/Helicopters to 2 per team at a time would encourage engagement in ground objectives, maintaining the focus on ground combat in GROUND realistic battles.

You would have to be extremely fragile if you play ground realistic for the sole purpose of getting on a plane to get kills for the sake of getting kills.

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I’m new to war thunder forums and I’m also on my phone so I apologize for not using quotes. I am eager to hear your responses, I will get back to as many as I can until the matter is solved.

Any developers reading this forum, I love this game, I’ve spent thousands of hours, I just don’t want to deal with flying opponents while I am in a tank.

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There are other topics regarding this issue.

Right now I can see people trying to attack You for the opinion that air is the problem in Ground Battles which was already discussed and proven in other topics.

Please use existing topics.

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In general, they do help win the match. The problem comes when your team has like 4 players in fighters with zero ground attack abilities.

I dont think any aircraft should be able to be first-spawned.

I find this mostly in the mid ranks. It is annoying. This is why, when i spawn cas, i avoid the dude who killed me. Only time i go for a “revenge kill” is when they are doing something like spawn camping. If they are in a good spot, i will make them my 2nd or 3rd kill but never the first.

And as already pointed out, people will just sit in the spawn menu and wait. It would allow for trolls to spawn into a plane then sit on the edge of the map to lock your team from actually using aircraft.

I would prefer them to rework sp costs. Have each bomb/missile cost sp rather than a set sp cost for whatever your best is. No reason 2 IR missiles should cost the same as 2 IR, 12 beam riding, and 2 laser guided missiles.

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Bad take.

What you want is tank only mode.

And if i want to play with cas and i can’t spawn it because someone did it faster and filled 4/4 vehicles then i’ll be raging.

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Just like any good tanker

Who’s mistake is this?

Sure, when I kill hostile CAs I care about revenge

You’re just bad at the game. SPAA created just for people like you. Only 70 IQ required, you can clear the sky from your spawnpoint

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So You sure should be good in SPAA, right?

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Yes. I collect the required SP for CAS almost every battle and playing on SPAA is the easiest way to get an airplane

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No.

What they do is loiter near the battlefront and expected area where they’re needed most, so they can come in and Support the troops from the Air from Close by when called in.

Close Air Support.

With the limitations of the game, having them spawn a few miles away corresponds well to this.

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ANYWAY:
That’s impossible because players are entitled to use their Spawn points as desired.

There is no way you will have such feature in any future (close/far/far far/dream)

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No one wants to be an ground spotter in the game. The war thunder is not a team game. The reward for winning does not match the efforts. Now the Spotter in the game gets NOTHING but winning statistics.

This is a more correct implementation of aviation, but there Is no teamplay in war thunder.

1 Like