you either find them in the most broken aircraft or in a funny/shit tank/airplane… there is probably no in between…
That’s all you had to say. Each era / tier is fun in its own way. 100%.
In fact, the only one that isn’t really fun in its own way is top-tier. Unless you like MBT spam.
Upfront:
Very nice post - and i share your opinion that everybody should be able to play which BR he wants to play.
Short reply:
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The main issue within this thread is the topic is actually NOT “high level players at low BRs” - the issue is that the game is designed to be imbalanced like hell (at entry BRs) in order to create the illusion for new players that grinding the TT as f2p player is a walk in the park.
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So new players progress way faster than their ability to gain experience - and players are usually not able to assess why they progress; they can not distinguish if their success is based on played vehicle or nation - or based on actual skill.
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In order to create this illusion gaijin offers vehicles which are objectively seen op (over powered) and they buff & nerf vehicles not only based on average performance - the BRs and the MM are tools to steer player behaviour and to encourage & support selling / buying premium products.
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If you try to look neutral on this topic the main issue is not really the difference of player levels - it is more the feeling of being totally helpless if you get clapped by a long term player which uses experience advantage and uses superior hardware at the same time.
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So it is logical that rather new players focus way too much on the player level of their opponents but they miss the decisive factor in this equation:
The BR setting policy of gaijin is a mess and at lower ranks the game is unbalanced like hell. -
The core issue is that gaijin claims that players would have a realistic fighting chance even in a full uptier which is objectively seen a fairy tale if both vehicles of the same class are controlled by equally skilled players. Just try to fight a BR 4.3 Yak-3 in a BR 3.3 Sakeen…
Additional remark regarding fair matches:
From my pov players and gaijin have complete different understandings of “what is a fair game play” and how the game should be played and balanced. So players think more about fair chances in direct 1 vs 1 but gaijin chases the Holy Grail of MMOs - balanced by statistical average; meaning that the game is balanced if the majority of players sit (as an example) on 50% WR.
Nevertheless I have deviating opinions about certain aspects of your essay:
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I do not agree with your claim that the “BR system is designed to match vehicles by combat effectiveness”.
From my pov the BR system is part of gaijin’s overall balancing efforts and is just a plain tool (with rather long adjustment cycles) to steer win rates and SL/RP income. In addition BRs are used as sales boosters.
If actual combat effectiveness would be measured gaijin would not rely on rather easy to assess parameters like kills and mission score (=SL/RP gains) based on the plain average performance of average players - they would adjust BRs on the top 5% of the players.
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I do not agree with “Gaijin doesn’t give uss a quick or reliable way to assess the skill level of enemy players during a match”.
Before players spawn everybody is able to assess the BR of the match and is able to check the player cards of all participants. So it is rather easy to detect coordinated squads, players with extremely good stats or players known for using op vehicles.
Even just having a good memory can save you a lot of time. Example: If you have played a match and a player in a BR 67 BI stomped the entire enemy team it makes (depending on your own plane and experience) no real sense to spawn if he is now in the enemy team.
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Your proposal regarding a “per-mode level system” sounds reasonable but it is actually counterproductive for the majority of “new” players.
If you think this through you would create a situation that above or below certain player levels there would be either more or less competition - whilst generating the same SL/RP rewards.
The natural (and usual) reaction by gaijin would be to strongly reduce SL/RP gains for lower player levels whilst they would increase the SL/RP income for higher player levels just slightly - as they would argue that the majority of SL/RP income would be generated by players with lower player levels.
Have a good one!
3 Likes
Thank you for your response to my post. I’d like to address your points with my own perspectives:
- I agree that the way Gaijin calculates BR seems flawed.
- You’re correct about being able to view player experience levels by opening their card. However, it’s not convenient to access during gameplay. Ideally, experience levels should be displayed directly on the scoreboard, eliminating the need to open each player’s card individually while maneuvering towards the frontline. Additionally, it would enhance clarity if experience levels were included in kill and death messages.
- I don’t think dismissing my idea with hypothetical scenarios, like “natural (and usual) reaction by Gaijin,” is valid. Gaijin could maintain SL/RP exactly the same for both queues, as it’s unrelated to my proposal. The dual-queue system aims to segregate “rookies/no good/slow learners/casual” players until they’re ready, while “experienced/good/fast learners/hardcore” players quickly progress to the second queue based on performance. This setup prevents farming SL/RP/Stats in the first queue, as players performing well would swiftly transition to the second queue.
I hope this clarifies my viewpoint. Cheers!
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If i get my ass kicked in high BR, then i go seal club low tiers until my mood improves. The vicious cycle must continue.
You are welcome!👍
I agree in general - the inconvenience gets even stronger as player level on a stand alone basis is a “Nothingburger”.
Not sure which mode and BRs you play but in Air RB at prop levels you are actually forced to identify the strongest enemies right at the start in order to set up the best possible initial positioning.
That means you are forced to check the vehicle stats to get an idea or indication what you have to expect - as the Level says nothing about skill.
Dismissing seems too harsh for me - my opinion was based on gaijin’s general practices in the past and the overall goals they have.
If you eliminate stiffer competition based on a currently arbitrary figure like player level you are artificially increasing the grinding progress for players below the threshold - whilst you do the opposite for players above the threshold. The game is optimized to keep players in the “flow channel” - the efforts by gaijin to “fine tune” the game for their main target group (minors with access to credit cards) would need a massive rework.
And i see strong indicators for my prediction - you get way less mission score if you kill a BR 1.0 plane (troll squads…) appearing in a BR 3.3-4.3 match. And over the years gaijin implemented a hell of open an hidden nerfs of the economy in Air RB - a lot of players are just not aware of this…
A last remark (and a current example of 2 lev 100s fighting at low BR):
Depending on daytime you see quite often up to 40% of the low BR lobbies (=3.3 and lower) filled with level 100s - a lot of them are excellent pilots in aircraft which are superior in more than one of the 3 main factors (climb, speed, turn) and can’t be killed by the average pilot at this BR range.
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In this replay (link) you see me fighting an excellent pilot in a Hurricane (which turns better than a Spitfire) - impressive stats in props and obviously able to turnfight.
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I checked the lobby whilst climbing and identified him as main threat. You can’t win those matches if you don’t kill the best enemy player. So i dragged him away from the center and up to 6 km - in order to create a undisturbed 1 vs 1 and using the severe power loss of his early Merlin engine above 6 km.
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As he had no simulator battles in his stats i was sure that my C-3604 is able to outturn the fellow player - i use a HOTAS and have therefore a handling & turn advantage vs mouse aim pilots using the instructor. Best dogfight in the last days (09:00 - 11:15), very good pilot but he lost his flaps and got killed.
Today, I encountered something amazing.
I encountered someone who kept ejecting when in a bad position, so I checked their profile to see if it’s a tourist or legit.
This guy is level 74.
With a playtime of 1726 hours.
Level 74.
All they ever fly (relatively speaking) is the Yak-2 Kabb in Air simulator
Level 74.
I’m level 71 with 741h total.
They’re level 74 with 1726h
There’s ~570k RP difference between 71 and 74 (8,851,600-8,281,300).
Approximately, it would take me 57 hours of Bf109F4 gameplay to reach level 74 assuming I never die and only play the Bf109F4 in ASB without boosters or premium (dying would increase it, but at most double it). Not 1000.
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Guy in question
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All the opposite, If you keep ejecting when in a position of disadvantage just to not give the kill you might as well be considered the lowest of the low
oh no no no, you got it wrong.
you see, this is borderline psychopatic gameplay and behaviour.
to diligently practise this for 1143 games requires some serious will.
3 Likes
Does it really matter what level the player is and what BR they are playing at. Matchmaking at present exempts any player skill as being irrelevant to game-play, of course anyone with just a few wrinkles on an otherwise smooth-brain knows this is not true.
But that has a caveat if player skill is not a factor then or is a small factor it means that the game is either totally unbalanced and not fit to play or other larger factors or other parameters are used to determine the games outcome.
I wonder which option is true and if it is the later than will Gaijin inform us of how the games outcome is determined via their algorithms and programming, yeah thought not.
Players should be able to play what BR they want, acing crew on a vehicle takes a long time so either skill should split the player-base for matchmaking, acing should be easier or maybe the players should contribute to a fund so higher level players can use golden lions to ace their crews and not play in lower BR’s.
2 Likes
being a experienced player getting in the KV-1 and getting a full down tier against a lot of new players be like
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I would rather have a team full of players like them than players who spend whole rounds sitting in spawn or in large groups waiting to be bombed out in the open.
Full downtiers happen like 10% of games, There is a reason its called UpTier thunder
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it strongly depends which br you are plying, you need a br which is played much more than many br´s as the full downtier option, aand then you need luck that not that many play the br´s which are 0.3-1 br higher…
not really dude… sure that can influence it a bit… but literally FULL down tiers happen about 10% of games… meaning 1 out of 10 games, is a full down tier, on average
Whereas full up tiers are about 70% of games
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I play low br for fun when im extremely frustrated from 7.0-12.0 ground sure i dont have planes highest plane i have is a premium which is the DO335B2 and even so i rarely ever use my premium 5.7 german lineup due to the constant full uptiers thats beaides the point. I only go into low br brackets due to its a way i unwind from the stresses of hackers(which BVVD is the most common name i see hacking and im talking about both on my team and enemy team viewing replays) and tryhards who try way way way way way too hard at this game be even more sweaty than the sweatiest of all call of duty players which imo is pathetic if you tryhards actually tried at your lives maybe this game would actually be fun but anything above 8.0 br is more of a frustrating chore than actual fun goes and this is due to panzies using primarily overpoweredly broken tanks helis and aircraft which primarily are RUSSIAN which tells me that gaijin doesnt play their game at all and those livestreams that show the tanks we get as devstreams are private matches they are not actual matches therefore gaijin devs who show off the new shit dont play their own game
its true that downtiers are rare but you can really influence it by doing this
Every full down tier is a full up tier by definition.
So what does this mean if put together?
First of all, we have to leave the “me” perspective. If I play 1.0, I will experience only full up tiers, but that does not mean that only full up tiers happen.
For the statement of Drakunite to be true, games would on average have to contain 10% top tier, 70% bottom tier and 20% middle tiers. We can all check if this is true - not from the tier we end up in but from the scoreboard of all participants.
Now if our subjective “me” perspective does not agree to the objective match composition analysis, why could that be?
Confirmation bias comes to mind first. You only notice when you are low tier.
But it could also be subjective reasons. I know the game loves to assign you the same map type if you quit early. Perhaps it also does this to down tier quitters? Or very good players?
We also have “wrong analysis” as an option, because players identify BRs wrong or don’t understand the downtiering in air arcade.