Lets talk about the state of Germany

[CoffeeBean100]

@Thodin

Every nation gets export vehicles itself. Challenger 2E, Australian Abrams, Palmeria,… etc.

So Britain, the most coddled nation that get given all the best vehicles and not prone to BR hikes due to certain nation players losing it every implementation, get a… another Challenger.

So USA get another… M1… shock.

@Thodin

Also tech demonstrators and vehicles which aren’t adopted by the armed forces like the 2S38

So Russia… that 2S38 is a massive finger up to ALL nations. Not sure how that effects just Germany.

@Thodin

Dunno where it started…

I dunno, all the “acquired” vehicles very early on. Many lights a mediums hiding in a US tree when really they should not, or at least be repeated in nations that actually used them? Then I notice a better Sea Hawk in someones tree. I also see top tier similarities in Air, though you will notice a lack of Mig-29s or F-16s in some nations. Of course German air for me ends at 9.3 since if I wanted to play Russia I’ll play Russia (I don’t). And already nearer Tornadoes in UK tree than Germany or Italy, and have no interest in those in this game’s setup/meta.

The situation I see here is muddled. Germany are essentially the least served (not at all times in WT) of the big 3. Mainly because the other two are the two main world powers of the time, US and Russia/USSR. But there are a lot more minor nations and they are served worse across the whole BR range, so making out the German tech tree is “hated” completely forgets the overall picture of all other nations that are not US or Russia.

I agree with some of the dissatisfaction as I want to be able to play all nations at all levels eventually but the supposed “Germany gets the worse deal always” is just divisive. Since I assume most of us are not Mains or with some personal hangup about other nations I hope there is a more level look at all these issues.

Could be worse, a third party might make a load of vehicles they are interested in and wipe out any chance of any homegrown vehicles added, and being generally worse vehicles than what could have been added. Imagine if this happened to other nations, removing a lot more than 3 vehicles and basically giving up on spending time/money of development.

Everytime I look above Tier 5/6 the game is just one big cluster f. Too much to balance, too many changing “rules” by Gaijin.

Almost EVERY nation suffers, I’d rather they all got looked after, Major nations last. Top tiers are now locked into the whole “information on tech” along with systems moving beyond true player interaction, and a dominance in tech and quantity by two of the largest nations in the game.

[TT33a]

@Sahilku010101

Your best and newest vehicles should go to your nation first, not the other way around!

@Lukrenyt

The tanks are missing because gaijin said fuck you to Germany for 2 years

It is a lot more than two years. You mention the situation with the post-war vehicles but the problem is bigger than that. Even the wartime 1939-1945 vehicles are severely lacking. We never received our best or newest vehicles. It seems like the majority of the wartime German vehicles are deliberately and perpetually stuck at circa 1943 configurations or earlier. Since the release of this game, over 10 years ago, we have been stuck with:

no +1943 Arado Ar 196 A-5 (WT’s A-3 is rare, early model)
no +1943 Arado Ar 440 A (Oberleutnant Thierfelder was extremely enthusiastic about this aircraft)
no +1945 Blohm & Voss BV 155 C (finalized/definitive production model unlike WT’s poor choice & implementation of the stopgap 155 B)
no +1943 Dornier Do 24 T-2
no Dornier Do 215 B of any type
no +1943 Dornier Do 217 K-2, K-3, M-11, R-1
no +1942 Focke Wulf Fw 189 A-2, A-4 (WT’s A-1 is rare, early model)
no +1944 Focke Wulf Fw 190 A-9
no +1944 Focke Wulf Fw 190 F-9, F-10, etc
no +1943 Focke Wulf Fw 190 G of any type
no +1942 Focke Wulf Fw 200 C-4, C-6, C-8 (WT’s C-1 is an extremely rare, early development model)
no +1944 Heinkel He 111 H-20, H-21, H-22, H-23
no +1944 Heinkel He 177 A-6, A-7
no +1944 Heinkel He 274 A
no +1944 Heinkel He 277 B
no +1944 Heinkel He 219 A-6 (anti-Mosquito model)
no +1945 Henschel Hs 132 B (dive bomber)
no +1942 Junkers Ju 86 R-2 (extreme altitude bomber)
no +1943 Junkers Ju 87 D-4 (torpedo bomber)
no +1943 Junkers Ju 87 D-7, D-8
no Junkers Ju 88 A-4/Torp or A-17 (torpedo bomber)
no +1943 Junkers Ju 88 A-13, A-14
no +1944 Junkers Ju 88 G-6, G-7
no +1943 Junkers Ju 88 H-2
no +1943 Junkers Ju 88 P of any type
no +1943 Junkers Ju 88 R-1 (souped-up Ju 88 C-6)
no +1944 Junkers Ju 88 S-1, S-2, S-3
no +1944 Junkers Ju 188 S
no +1944 Junkers Ju 388 K
no +1944 Junkers Ju 388 M (torpedo bomber)
no +1945 Junkers Ju 287 A
no +1944 Junkers Ju 290 A-7, A-8, B-1 (Fw 200 successor)
no Messerschmitt Bf 109 E-4/N (DB 601N engine)
no +1945 Messerschmitt Bf 109 K-14
no +1945 Messerschmitt Me 263 A
no +1943 Focke Achgelis Fa 223
no +1942 Panzerkampfwagen II Ausf. J
no +1943 Panzerkampfwagen II Ausf. L
no +1943 Leichte Feldhaubitze 18/2 auf Fahrgestell Panzerkampfwagen II (Sf) (Wespe)
no Panzerkampwagen 38(t) Ausf. G (final 38(t) tank model)
no +1943 Panzerjager 38(t) mit 7.5 cm Pak 40/3 Ausf. M (Marder III M)
no +1944 Aufklarer auf Fahrgestell Panzerkampfwagen 38(t) mit 7.5 cm KwK 37 L/24
no +1945 Jagdpanzer 38(t) in final configuration, no Jagdpanzer 38(t) Starr, no Jagdpanzer 38(d)
no +1943 15 cm Schweres Infanteriegeschutz 33/1 auf Selbstfahrlafette 38(t) (Sf) Ausf. K (Grille)
no +1944 15 cm Schweres Infanteriegeschutz 33/2 auf Jagdpanzer 38(t) (Sf)
no +1944 Sturmgeschutz III Ausf. G (WT’s Stug III G is a May 1943 example with weaker features)
no +1944 10.5 cm Sturmhaubitze 42 Ausf. G (WT’s StuH 42 is a May 1943 example with weaker features)
no +1944 Sturmgeschutz IV
no +1944 Jagdpanzer IV Ausf. F (WT’s JP IV is a Jan 1944 prototype with weaker features, not the mass produced, 80 mm thick one)
no +1944 8.8 cm Pak43/1 auf Geschutzwagen III/IV (Sf) (Nashorn) (WT’s Nashorn is a 1943 example with weaker features)
no +1944 15 cm Schwere Panzerhaubitze auf Geschutzwagen III/IV (Sf) (Hummel)
no +1944 Sturmpanzer IV mit 15 cm StuH 43 Ausf. IV (Brummbär) (WT’s Brummbär is an extremely rare Ausf. I configuration)
no +1944 Jagdpanther Ausf. G2 (WT’s Jagdpanthers are early G1 examples)
no +1943 SdKfz 250 Ausf. B (neu) of any type (250/8, 250/9, 250/10)
no +1944 SdKfz 251/21 Ausf. D with 20 mm MG 151/20 (WT’s 251/21 is an earlier 15 mm MG 151/15 example)
no +1943 8 cm Raketen-Vielfachwerfer
no +1944 15 cm Panzerwerfer 42 auf Sf (WT’s Panzerwerfer is an incorrect, earlyish mix and match chimera with no perceptible Ausführung)
no +1944 15 cm Panzerwerfer 42 auf sWS (successor to Panzerwerfer 42)
no +1944 PzSpWg P204(f) mit 5 cm L/60 (WT’s P204(f) is an earlier 5 cm L/42 example)
no +1943 Schwere Panzerspahwagen 8-Rad mit 7.5 cm StuK 37 L/24
no +1945 3 cm Flakvierling Flakpanzer IV Zerstörer 45
removal of the 3.7 cm Flakzwilling auf Panther Fahrgestell (for no good reason since chassis/weapons existed)
no Flammpanzer flame tank of any type (early, mid, or late-war)
no +1944 late captured Beutepanzer of any type (no 76 mm M1 Sherman, no 85 mm ZiS-S-53 T-34, no IS-2, no Su-85, no Su-100, no Sherman Firefly, no Panzerkampfwagen P40 737(i), no Sturmgeschutz M43 mit 75/34 851(i), no Sturmgeschutz M43 mit 75/46 852(i), no Sturmgeschutz M43 mit 105/25 853(i)…)
no +1944-45 late configured major ships such as the 1944 Admiral Hipper, 1945 Lützow, 1945 Admiral Scheer, 1943 Scharnhorst (final config prior to sinking), or 1944 Tirpitz

@GHOST_KING5710

I put this 3 months ago trying to fix German bombs

Tell them to fix the bombloads too as many aircraft still have the 1800 & 2500 missing from their loadouts

[Ghost-King]

Don’t forget the Do-317 and He-280

[Miragen]

Turns out that time where German tanks would catch fire randomly through MG fire wasn’t just an accident after all, if anyone ever believed that.

[Ghost-King]

@TT33a

Tell them to fix the bombloads too as many aircraft still have the 1800 & 2500 missing from their loadouts

Working on that too take a look

Where is the missing SC2500? and where is the SB2500A1?

I mixed between the SC2500 and cluster AB1000 bomb your completely right https://www.ww2-weapons.com/junkers-ju-88/ Ju 88A-4s with 1340/1400hp Jumo 211F/J motors begun arriving in sizeable figures about mid­-1940. This would end up being the main manufacturing version of the A models and became the starting point for a number of additional models. By the end of 1940 the Ju 88A-4 included structural improvements enabling more weights, even more improves in standard bomb load of 5,519 lb (2,500 …

[_Baum]

Germany owns the KF 41s… The german Bundeswehr and government have to agree to the export of the vehicle… They just don`t use it.

If we go by this logic all vehicles labled Obj should be removed from the russian tree as russia never used them, just tested them. same for every other vehicle which never entered service but was tested/evaluated by the nation.

[_Baum]

Becauise the german arms industry needs the approval of the german government for EVERY export of their product and the Bundeswehr has to test the vehicles to advice the government in their decisions of procurement and expoirt?

Like how it is in every single nation with an arms industry? Like russia, china, Turky, France, GB and so on?

[theHarbinger123]

The SBs would be so great to have in game as they have more explosive mass for the same weight. What is it like from 40% for SC to 60% for SB. But no not a single SB is in game.

[Ghost-King]

Yes for example the SC-2500 have 1700 kg of Trialen 105 but the SB-2500 A1 have 2000kg of Trialen 105

[theHarbinger123]

Ok so more like 68% for sc and 80% for sb. I was way off.

[Ghost-King]

Yes look at these

Spoiler

[Ghost-King]

And take alook at these subjects you might be interested

German bombs SC50 to SC1800 filling

All bombs from SC50 to the SC1800 used Trialen 105 as filling but in game the only filling they use is Fp.60/40 and Amatol, so for example SC1000 use 600kg of Trialen 105 as filling and SC1800 use 1100kg of Trialen 105 as filling but in game they only use Amatol and Fp.60/40.

SC50

[Screenshot_2023-08-27-15-22-07-377-edit_com.google.android.apps.docs] [Screenshot_2023-08-27-15-44-54-601-edit_com.google.android.apps.docs] [Screenshot_2023-08-27-15-45-52-516-edit_com.google.android.apps.docs] [S…

Flakpanzer IV (3 cm Flakvierling) ‘Zerstörer 45’

poll In the later stages of the Second World War, the Germans lost control over the skies and their ground forces had to endure extensive enemy air attacks. The use of self-propelled anti-aircraft guns (SPAAGs) based on half-track chassis offered some way to fight back, but these were themselves highly vulnerable, as they lacked proper armor protection. A SPAAG based on a tank chassis was more desirable. Starting from 1944, the German focus was on producing such vehicles based on the Panzer IV …

[el_Argentino]

REFERENDUM: Request from the German community

Consult the German community. (main and regular users of the German TT). People have exploded all over the forum, in multiple threads and with multiple complaints about the treatment that Gaijin applies to the German TT. Leaving aside the request for impossible or varied things, I want to do a survey and focus the community’s request to Gaijin. Among the various requests from the community, if you could choose one of them for Gaijin to attend to at least one request, what would it be? poll

[James Lindsay]

I fully agree! I think Germany needs to get some of its vehicles or at least get add on upgrades to the existing ones! The PSO would be a joke if it did not bring a hull armour upgrade, which I hope they will resolve by adding it as a modification.

[foxtrot19673]

Iirc gaijin said germany will get a swiss sub tree, which i hope fixes most of the problems that the tree has atm, i only know about air rb since i main that but i really hope the swiss sub tree gets added asap

[ARK_BOI]

we don’t get PUMA spike this patch at least make PSO UFP armor better like Strv122 isn’t too much to ask right? three years of waiting for those German players let not disappoint them.

[Sahilku010101-psn]

[Development] KF41: The Majestic Lynx - News - War Thunder

[MBDA_Meteor]

Gaijin nailed it that they wouldn’t give it to Germany in this patch, even Spike for PUMA.

[Ruskie_Turtles]

They said the opposite and that the swiss hunter was a one off.

[Lord_Prism]

I dont remember that, when did they say that?