Want not have both as filterable options?
Because these people are selfish snakes with severe case of tunnel vision. The least they can do, in case of “bad reward” is advocate for better reward but being the kind of people they are they just use the bad state of the game as leverage to shot down other idea rather than seeing those issues as actual problem that is detrimental to players.
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I doubt most people truly enjoy the current mode - rather they tolerate it because there is no better option.
Doesn’t every round amounting to just the same dogfights over and over on a different color palette not get boring?
Unless destroying them is under no uncertain circumstances required to win matches, frankly no, they don’t practically exist.
Fighters currently can win games while completely ignoring both. This is the source of the mode’s issues.
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Multi spawn modes would make things much more interesting, you’d have more things to engage and to actually play both A2A and A2G in the same game.
We definitely don’t need bigger maps, just better placement of things around them.
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was that one of those votes like where Gaijin asked “do you want repair cost based on how strong a plane is or it’s rank?” and every one voted rank because the 30k SL repair cost planes where unaffordable to play for most people and people wanted to be able to play them… and Gaijin responded by INCREASING EVERYTHING to 30k?
To be honest, what they enjoy or not shouldn’t matter while one class of aircraft is almost useless in the given game mode. That fact alone should make Gaijin to rework ARB.
Fighter jocks malding their mode (which currently should be called Fighters Only) might change to suit all aircraft types equally shouldn’t concern anyone.
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That would be the ideal solution to this
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I dont see how using your skill to win a match is an issue
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The fact that you can’t see how bomber and attacker are thoroughly useless in current iteration of ARB says everything about you as a person. Again with leveraging a bad game design for your own enjoyment. You lot deserves 2022 war thunder.
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So say you have 14 F-4Ss bombing on your team after a sale. Is losing then a skill issue?
Or you are playing Germany 6.0 and half your team is in bombers. Is losing a skill issue? Seems like it is according to you.
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Frankly, its worse than this.
Three of four major classes of aircraft are at best playable and at worst totally irrelevant (heavy fighters, attackers, and bombers). And of the purebred fighters that are playable, maybe a third of them are “meta-centric” enough to actually be considered “good.”
I too support totally upending the mode to support all plane classes, while intentionally not introducing a separate pure dogfight mode. We don’t need 3-5 different aircraft modes - just a single intelligently-made and GOOD one that everybody has actual value in.
Fixing the near-total-irrelevance of everything but meta fighters will also help the CAS spam issues in Ground RB, because now many of those attackers will have somewhere else to go.
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Of course you might say they should stop bombing. However that’s never going to happen. Also Gaijin is also never going to remove bases and ground units from ARB since it’s how they sell half their premiums. So people are going to do it anyway. Why not have those players which are “useless” on your team do something actually useful.
How I would personally go about a comprehensive framework for “fixing” Air RB, two possible methods:
- Completely scrap Air RB and make RB EC the only Air Realistic game mode.
- Heavily reform Air RB into something strongly inspired by EC, but still retaining the “one death” nature of it.
Now how would this work? What underlies all changes to maps, objective types, airbases no longer being able to be practically destroyed via bombing, and basically every other change stems from an unresolved mess dating to this game’s founding.
The mere ability of any single objective to auto-win the game without input from the other two objectives. Killing all planes leading to a fast automatic ticket bleed to zero, which bleeds to zero regardless of what attackers and bombers did, if anything at all. The old ticket bleed from airbase destruction was similar - it did not matter what fighters and attackers did. And attackers being able to wipe all the tickets via ground units without input from fighters or bombers. This meant that the three objectives - A2A, CAS, and Bombing were effectively competing against each other despite being on the same team.
To properly renew the game mode’s foundation would demand the following:
- Remove the “No active players left on enemy team” auto-win ticket bleed.
- Remove the “Airbase destroyed” auto-win ticket bleed.
- Increase ticket losses per aircraft kill so that killing all 16 players + AI attackers (I don’t remember exactly how many there are per team) bleed exactly 50% of the starting ticket bar in incremental chunks per plane death.
- Add many more simultaneously active bombing targets, but disable their ability to respawn. Adjust their ticket value to add up to 50% of the starting ticket bar.
- Either halve the number of active ground units or halve their ticket value such that killing all of them wipes 50% of the ticket bar.
- Extend match timers back to 1 hour, have the “supply line trucks/boats” spawn in at the 20min mark like is still seen on a handful of old maps when matches last that long. These vehicles would intentionally be worth 50% of the starting ticket bar.
Then, each objective is given the time to be taken care of without being forced to excessively step on the toes of planes whose purpose is devoted to other objectives.
Maps must be very much remade to fit objective setup like the above. I personally find maps of the style “[Air Battle] France 1944” to be a suitable model, of which there are several others of similar layout for [Air Battle] Hurtgen, one of the several Moscow maps, and a couple others. Each side has three well-separated groups of pillboxes and three well-separated tank columns, encompassing the majority of the map. The only current downside of this map style is that all players airspawn at 2000m, bombers included, which means bombers are even more defenseless than they currently are.
After those two are properly dealt with, then we can begin to seriously hammer out things such as:
- More varied objectives for attackers that require more player skill to deal with
- More varied objectives for bombers that require more player skill and/or teamwork to successfully take out (as there is only so much skill you can realistically add for bombers the way the game models them).
- Objectives that can influence the air battle, such as radar stations.
- Choice of ground units in the mode (classic Air AI or using player tank/ship models as is seen more recently)
- Re-incorporation of AI scout planes and bomber formations like were once present on some maps, which act as a lure to encourage people to actually climb.
- The question on how “necessary” red enemy markers, at least on aircraft, are. IMHO enemy aircraft markers should be axed completely, both to bring parity of Air RB with Ground RB and Naval RB, and also to encourage addressing of other serious issues they act to cover up.
- Addressing of the everpresent problem of dot spotting being unequal with respect to different graphics settings - DCS once had this same issue, and Universal Dot Scaling was what it took to fix it. Currently it’s way easier to spot aircraft on ULQ than on higher settings. The existence of red enemy markers is an excuse to ignore this problem. It is ridiculous to be able to spot enemy bombers right when they spawn while still on the runway.
- Many BRs are completely nonsensical, and would need immediate adjustment once red markers are axed. In general, speedy planes with acceptable maneuverability would go up quite substantially, while dedicated turnfighters would see BRs drop. Without red markers so easily spoiling surprise attacks, it would become much more normal to ambush and blow to smithereens that A6M Zero before it starts turning in the first place, as an example.
- Undoing years of idiotic nerfs to rudder control on countless prop planes and some jets which at one point or another were intensively whined about. Rudder bricking seems to be Gaijin’s “favorite” nerf for a “problem” plane. Some planes which once had it later had it removed - Fw-190s, I-185s, Ta-152s to name a few popular examples. Others had it given to them and still have yet to see it lifted - F4Us, Ki-43s, J2Ms, P-51Ds (though surprisingly not the A-36, P-51A, or Cannonstangs), P-51Hs, Tempests, F8Fs, and all the 5.0-6.7 BR heavy fighters.
- Gun damage being generally increased, as apparently it has been nerfed considerably in recent patches across the board for some reason. Most likely a bungled RealShatter thing akin to how Volumetric Armor is still a big problem with tanks.
There are many other specific little issues I could go on and on about. But these are some of the most important to mention.
@MotorolaCRO what do you think of this?
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Those guys goes chicken after being called out.
I am going to read your response fully a bit later as I am busy right now. Now let me just say this. I didn’t include any concrete proposals on how ARB should be fixed since everyone has their own opinion. I think it’s better to agree for now that we are unhappy with how ARB currently is and to get Gaijin to acknowledge that. I would much rather compromise later when they are open to reworking things than argue to death now and for Gaijin to dismiss us since we “don’t have anything better”.
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I find the community formed around this game fascinating, i can’t think of any other game with this sort of playerbase and cat-and-mouse back and forth between developpers and players.
Very interested to see where this game will head in the future, and interested to see what this thread can offer, I won’t reply further until I’ve read everything, kudos to OP for initiating a strong thread, at least.
attackers can absolutely end matches and bombers can extend them, and what was with 2022 wt?
Agreed, people asking for crap like IR-only, guns-only, etc. has no real value in actually fixing the ARB.
That too and not only that, it should bring more options to CAS players as currently they first need to play tanks in order to access their planes in GRB, which doesn’t sound fair to them.
You have some good points but I’m still for ARB being multi spawn mode, as I think it could produce interesting and longer lasting games.
“assumptions” based on 13 years of playing this game,… If gaijin gave us an increase of rewards it’s due to Steam bombing,… but they will get their hands dirty, willing to reduce rewards,… and that’s a given based on what Gaijin ever done with the game. (they’ve already done it lately)
i’m still not agreeing on your part, and that’s my right.
you joined in 2017? good for you,…
well i did in 2013, is this a way to gain any expertise? from your PoV it’s “no”
so it is also “no” in my PoV.
it literally is,… you can check your rewards from Tanks in GRB , and take it to compare with Planes in ARB
you have multispawn in GRB, you don’t in ARB → as simple as that ARB is the mode that give most rewards out of AB/RB modes.
SB Modes are requiring much more from players, to overcome difficulties, but are also played over much longer gameplay time.
per design you said? yes, per design,…
a gamemode of sensible same amount of difficulty (RB) that:
- allows Respawn GRB
- not allows Respawn ARB
Doesn’t get the same amount of reward,…
what’s the difference then? RESPAWN
so yes, they will decrease.
From my 2 latest game in both modes:
ARB - 77% activity -3min and 12 seconds to earn without a premium vehicule, doing 2kills + loosing my plane
2680 RP for next vehicule
9749 Silver lions
that’s
13.96 RP / second
50.78 SL/ second
GRB - 92% activity - 12min46seconds to earn with 1 premium tank (3kills+dead) and 1(1kill) non-premium tank
5834 RP for next vehicule
39506 Silver lions
that’s
7.62 RP / second
51.57 SL/ second
Tell me how it is normal to have similarly less RP in GRB, even if i used a premium vehicule and respawned in GRB?
Please make it concrete.
maybe i’m, yet, i’m explainning what will happen,… Gaijin is not going to let go a system that bring her money,…
Premium account and vehicules are the given solution,…
if you wanna play in this game, without those, you have to become good.
i played like 12 out of 13 years without premium account.
i know that today i could play without any premium vehicule, if i would like to let them rust.
i became good enough to make it through the game economy
and you speak to me about rewards/efforts? like please! i played the game when it worse than it is today! i have knowledge of what happenned, and what Gaijin is making to reduce rewards,… offer them Respawn in ARb, they will kill rewards because you would be able to spawn more.
SO:
When people comes and saygetting respawn in ARB will allow for more rewards, i’m like “nuh-huh” because of experience and game knowledge.
definitly no,… it was demonstrated in EC RB when they’ve made it,…
but let’s go at it again - so imagine:
One team take the advantage in the skies (first 5 minutes in game) - where are they now?
pushing in your territory ; to your airspawns and airfields (with respawn, it might end up in full Airfield spawn, like it was in EC)
so then, what most people from the disadvantaged team would do?
→ Quitting/Leaving the game, and jump in the next one.
and for the most courageous ones, that are trying in anyway?
→ Getting spawn killed, until they quit themselves, or loose the game.
Without larger maps: impossible to get a full area covered with SAM for both teams, that will prevent like 85% players to spawnkill you.
Without thinking Respawn in ARB will lead to even more hatred between players (as today,…)
you all take exemple on SIM battles → please how many rage-quit players, low skill, unaware pilots there is in SIM?
Most of them are experienced if not passionate SIM players.
RB community is FAR Different.
you will never have 14 F-4s bombing bases
and its not 2020 where 6.0 was just 8v8 with 2 fighters on the german side, and its not an issue with germany but its rather just allies having undertiered superprops