You’re not meant to outrun radar missiles you’re meant to learn how to notch as that’s the gameplay at top tier, dealing with radar missiles and IRCCM.
Do you not have RWR am I confused
The Kfir Canard is a great fit at 10.7. The speed, armament, and maneuverability is better than the F-5E. The only thing it doesn’t have is a radar when compared to the F-5E. It is an amazing dogfighter and the Aim9Gs are quite effective as are the 30mm guns.
The F4 airframe surely doesn’t need to go up in br. Most of them being 11.3 is absolutely fine seeing that they are absolutely outclassed by the F16 and Mig29.
If you are struggling with Aim7Fs, try noting the F-4S Pule Doppler radar and staying low for the regular Search mode. Also the Aim7F is pretty easy to out maneuver, especially in a plane as nimble as the Kfir Canard.
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kfir canard stomps f-4s and you can easily outplay it. just dont fly straight into its missiles.
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That’s the entire factor of firing a missile at somebody. ARH missiles are unbelievably easy to dodge, SARH missiles require flying moderately low, while IR missiles require nothing more than positioning and proper use of flares.
What?
Radar has no relation to BR to begin with.
Do you understand what you are even typing.
Positioning, as I’ve already said.
It’s competitive with the F5E, maybe not better but the F5E desperately needed to become 11.0 BR and didn’t get it in this BR change. American teams - same reason F15 didnt become 12.7.
J35XS, F5E and Kfir Canard all should be 11.0 as they overshadow planes like the F-4F that are too powerful for 10.3 yet not powerful enough for 11.0.
None of those planes should be 11.0. Gaijin was going to push the F-5E to 11, but people spoke up because it would be absolutely outclassed by planes with more advanced radars and much better weapons. You honestly think that the Kfir, J35XS, and F-5E should be able to face Mig29s, F-14s, F-16s, and Yak-141s? That makes no sense at all. All of those 12.0 planes would smash them into the ground. Even more advanced radar/all aspect heatseekers against planes with 2 Aim9Gs, 2 Aim9Js or 6 Aim9Ps?
Also the F-4F may not be as good of a dogfighting plane it carries 4 Aim9Js, the 20mm cannon (mounted internally), has a huge payload, and is equipped with the Agile Eagle package. It is the F-4E without the SARHs. That is no helpless plane by any means. The only reason it may get overshadowed is because the Kfir and J35XS are premiums and the F-5E leads to the F-16. The F-4F suffers from a bad spot in the tech tree more than anything else.
From the response from Gaijin it will go up to 11.0BR sooner or later.
If they have an AIM-9P-4 or AIM-9L, the 11.0BR will be fine like Kfir C.2 that has Python-3.
That would be a wonderful reason to push them up. Like the Kurnass 2000 being an 11.3 with no SARH compared to the F-4F at 10.7 with no SARH, and the F-4EJ Kai being an 11.7 compared to the F-4J/S at 11.3. If the F-5E got some Aim9Ls I think it would fit right in at 11.0 and I would absolutely love if the Kfir got Python 3s and moved to 11.0.
Just because you don’t know how to play, doesn’t mean the plane needs to be moved down.
Yes, the F-4F is an F4E without the SARHs.
That means it’s helpless to defend itself against planes with better performance, such as the F5E, J35XS or Kfir Canard. An F4F does not have any meaningful advantages that it can use to kill an F-5E, nor is it meaningfully better at killing enemies than the F5E.
Compared to 11.0s like the F4E and the MiG-23M, the Kfir and F-5 have flight models that are easier to use and they are more survivable since they have an easier time flaring missiles. Getting killed by non-IRCCM all-aspect missiles is a literal skill issue, and they fight those all the time without a problem. Pushing them up .3 BR would give breathing room to the 10.0-10.7 vehicles that simply cannot compete.
It isn’t helpless at all. It just isn’t a turn fighter, so of course if you get into a turn fight with an F-5E you’d have trouble. It is meaningfully better, twice the missiles means there is potential for one F-4F to make twice the kills in a game. Getting 3-4 kills is more meaningful than 1-2 kills in battle. You say that dying to 30g all aspects are a skill issue, but don’t know that the F-4 airframe shouldn’t turn fight smaller more agile airframes. Makes me wonder if you are aware that not all airframes are made for dogfighting and shouldn’t be adjusted in BR to make them good at dogfighting. The F-104G is a 10.7, but it can be outmaneuvered by the F-5E, should we move it down as well? No, because it has it’s own strengths and weaknesses compared to other planes and doing so would cause issues because of armament.
Kfir canard is in good spot for now and every experienced in game pilot will tell you the same, the fact you can’t utilize the aircraft proper way is a big skill issue for you. In fact Kfir is way superior in flight performace than any F-4 in game, Aim-9G’s are not good missiles but they can work if utilized properly, they have really good range for IR missiles and if oponent doesn’t have or use flares it can be taken down from 3.5 - 4 km away (of course also depending on oponent’s speed and altitude, higher your altitude is, the faster the missile will be and therefore you are also being able fire from longer ranges as range of the missile will also improve). Guns are okay, I’ve played a lot of Mirage 2k to know that even tho they are not the exact same model, they are almost identical.
I’ve played my share of Kfir after the sales and I had a blast, its not the perfect jet but it does wonders when you know what you have to do, and not to mention that you need a good knowledge of what radars you are gonna face, which jets have RWR and which dont, what missiles other aircraft have, to be fair I’m much more afraid of MiG-23ML/MLD/MLA’s R24R with MTI radar mode as it doesnt give you indication where you are getting locked from, then sparrow where all you have to do notch the missile and hit the deck right after it gets fired at you.
The Kfir outruns the F-4F so any kfir player with more than two brain cells will just dodge once and eventually win. There is no feasible way to avoid fighting the Kfir, since it can one-flare missiles, and outperforms the F-4 by a large margin.
Same for F-5E that goes the same speed as F-4 in practice and can kill F-4 through flares with 9J, while it can one-flare 9Js in return. The F-4 has more killing power, but it’s also very easy to kill whenever it commits to a dogfight.
In practice the F-4F is worse because it can’t kill F-5s and Kfirs easily, while the F-5s and Kfirs have little trouble killing it whenever it tries to engage.
Now that top tier is 12.7 I see no issue with the kfir and F5 being the same BR as the MiG-23M.
The Aim9J doesn’t magically change from flareable to non-flarable between airframes. Yea, the F-4 puts off more heat, but if you drop burners and flare you’ll lose the missile every time. And you have to go and say an Aim9J is hard to flare but getting killed by non-irccm all-aspect heatseekers is a skill issue. Gotta make up your mind, are they hard to flare or is it a skill issue to die to non-irccm missiles?
If an F-4 commits to a dogfight with those smaller lighter airframes, that is the pilots fault. Don’t try to blame the plane and say it’s bad and all these other planes bully it when people use it wrong. It’s like your saying a P-51 isn’t a good fighter because it will lose in a dogfight against a Spitfire. Yea, that happens because the Spitfire is a better turnfighter. That doesn’t mean the P-51 is bad, that means the pilot made the wrong decision for the airframe.
The Kfir, F-5E, and company are great close in fighters, they should be cause that’s what they were made for. The F-4 wasn’t made for close in fighting. It is a multirole fighter. Made to be a jack of all trades. Look at the ordnance it carries, dedicated close in fighters don’t carry payloads like that. The Kfir, F-5E, J35XS, and F-4F are absolutely fine rolling in at 10.7.
Ok it is clear you have no idea what you are typing about, even with benefit of doubt and let you type out twice! Guess the Service record never lies.
Not really. it bleeds everything if you are not careful. You cannot commit to fight anything because you will get third partied instantly at 400kph. F5E is literally point and click.
Yes, I’m sure it is. It’s not like half of your comment was unintelligible.
What service record?
If you drop burner you will lose speed, so now the F-5 is right up in your grills breathing 20mm down your neck. But the other way around, the F-5 can one-flare a 9J. The F-4 is simply more vulnerable to missiles whereas dying to an R60M in the F-5 is simply a skill issue.
It’s much harder for an F-4 to kill an F-5 than the other way around. Even if the F-4 third-parties the dogfight, the F-5 is much more slippery than a Phantom. It’s simply more difficult for the phantom pilot to be effective.
If you want to play a more passive third-party approach, the F-5 is still good because it’s so hard to kill. Its performance is on another level.
Here’s a thought scenario: what would happen if a team of only F-4Fs fought a team of only F-5Es? The F-5s would win easily. Same for the Kfir Canard: planes like the F-4 are only allowed to be effective when a F-5/Kfir isn’t looking at them.
An F-4 can kill an F-5E perfectly well. You can’t get in to a prolonged fight, but it isn’t as impossible as you are trying to make it sound. Luckily, this isn’t a 1v1 dogfight game and you have options on how to approach a fight. Regardless, the F-5E doesn’t have the armament for an 11.0 plane. Look at the Mig21s, Mig23s, and Mig27s at 11.0. All of them carry 4-6 missiles (6 usually the R-60M) and have a speed advantage over the F-5E. Only having 2 missiles means it doesn’t even fit in with its 11.0 counterparts. Oh yea, go ahead with the “R60M kills you then it’s a skill issue” garbage, but having 6 R60Ms is worlds apart from having 2 Aim9J/Gs. The F-5E can dogfight, but the difference in the armament keeps it lower.
Your thought experiment means nothing. The F-4F can be effective in battle the same as the F-5E, the Kfir, J35XS, and the Sea Harrier at 10.7. It is the best F-4 airframe for maneuverability (Agile Eagle) with twice the available air to air armament of the F-5 and Kfir. Not as maneuverable as those two, but the armament makes up for that. The reason it does, is because you don’t always fight Kfirs or F-5Es. You fight a multitude of planes of different types at the same time.
Even though it has no real bearing on the discussion, if you third party a dogfight and can’t/don’t surprise the enemy with a missile, that is your own fault. And if you do fail with the surprise attack, break off. They don’t call it boom and stick around, wonder why that is…