Just How Bad is the US SPAA Line?

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
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Having good SPAA at every tier is important in Ground RB because of how abusive CAS can be without it. When a nation (especially a “Big 3” nation) does not have competent SPAA, then anytime that nation is on its own, the match becomes very one-sided. The US often finds itself fighting the USSR and Germany, which have the best SPAA lines in the game. Granted, the US has the best CAS lines in the game, but that doesn’t mean much if one side’s CAS can’t have an effect on the battlefield while the other side’s can, or if the SP cost differential between CAS and SPAA is 800.

The US’s SPAA line is truly in a sorry state:

Ranks I and II are tolerable given the limited ordinance for CAS at those BRs and relatively slow aircraft, but then again, SPAA has never been that important here.

Things start to get bad at Rank III. The M19 and M42 are very easy to kill by aircraft and their slow ROF makes it more difficult to hit planes than the Sd.Kfz. 251/21, Wirbelwind, and BTR-152D. Even Britain can bring the Ystervark, Crusader AA, and Bosvark.

Rank IV SPAA is literally non-existent for the US. Meanwhile every other nation in the game has fast-firing, high-velocity guns. Germany has the Zestorer and the wirbelwind is still pretty effective. Russia and many of the minor nations have things like the BTR-ZD, R3-T20, and the AMX-10P which obliterate CAS.

It’s not until Rank V that the US gets another SPAA which is, again, disappointing. The M163 has a high ROF, but it does not have the range/velocity to deal with jets or helicopters.

At Rank VI the US gets the M247 which is okay, and the Chaparral, which doesn’t need explanation.

At Rank VII the US gets the LAV-AD and XM975, which are mediocre at best.

And at Rank VIII the US doesn’t even have an SPAA. It gets a “TD” in the SPAA line, which is, again, a garbage SPAA compared to the Pantsir and ITO which it usually faces, as well as having higher SP cost, even though it sucks as a TD too because it’s slow and can’t fire its missiles on the move.

The US has been in the game for a very long time and is still severely lacking in competent SPAAs across the board. It would be nice for the US to finally get some decent SPAAs to deal with CAS.

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Just use M16 till M163.

Quite simple, really.

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The M163 is trash.

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Also 4 .50 cals is not a good solution…

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It is by far the worst SPAA line of all the major nations, and it desperately needs more SPAA. Low tier is great, but from the M16 to M247, all the SPAA is just really meh.

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Better than 2 40mm’s…

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If you can … get the Spitfire LF Mk IXc Premium. Best flying SPAA against CAS by now for US.

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Even of the minor nations… I think the only SPAA line which is worse than the US is Israel.

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Sweden?
Simply because we have no usable SPAA until like 7.7 and everything in our line is a TD.

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I would say Sweden is still better. It has a slightly worse time at the lower BRs but has a much better time from Rank V onward. Sweden is also relatively new. The ItO is a massive boon to Sweden.

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Spaa’s are good if gaijin would stop nerfing the speed of the turret and bullet drop.

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The US has quite a few prototypes that would fill the gap but Gaijin isn’t interested in adding them.

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well at top tier italy is worse too only redeming factor is the AT capability of 12 APFSDS

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The M19 and M42 have been dropped so much that they are actually better tank destroyers than AA.

The 40mm Bofors cannon is missing APDS rounds derived from the round on the Swedish reserve cannon (the Bofors AA gun is Swedish in origin and license-built by everyone else). Most likely said round is compatible with both the L/60 and L/70 versions.

The L/70 version is also missing HE-VT on quite a few platforms modern enough to field such a shell. And honestly with so many other iffy round choice options given, I would not mind ahistorically giving such shells to several platforms with it (including the VEAK 40 which just had it taken away). Whether this shell also worked for the L/60 is not known, but the M42 Duster was used in Vietnam so it might have been around when such rounds were made. We still have the ahistorical BR-471D on the IS-2 (1944), IS-6, IS-2 Revenge, IS-2 No.321, and ahistorical APFSDS for the M48A2GA2 which its ammo racks could not fit as examples of rounds added for balance reasons over pure accuracy.

I would give the HE-VT round and APDS to the M42 Dusters, AMX-13 DCA, Leopard 40/70, and anything higher in BR. Similarly I would give other nations’ similar guns at the same BR threshold or higher any missing APCR/APDS they had.

Separately, I think all SPAAGs in Realistic should have lead indicators out to 1.0/1.5km vs aircraft only for a stock/aced crew, as should all SPHs/SPAs with HE-TF/HE-VT rounds loaded. Why? Because planes and helicopters fly unrealistically, and the reasons (mouse aim & 3rd person camera) will never be removed since they’re too integral to selling the game, hence artificially increasing SPAAG, SPH, and SPA hit chance vs aircraft to compensate.

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p l e a s e include the Ivkv 42 in this.

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I forgot about that one, it has an L/70 Bofors, so obviously yes. It used both rounds I believe, or at least the APDS.

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It should at least have the APDS, yeah.

If I may ask, what is your issue with mouse aim? Im just curious, and im wondering your reasons for it.

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I mean the m42 isn’t that bad.

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I don’t have an issue with mouse aim - it is an integral part of Realistic mode. However, SPAAGs, operating in a 2D map, have a far harder time aiming successfully at planes moving in 3D space overhead than say any tank gun aiming at any moving tank, or even a plane aiming at another plane.

Due to the much higher skill floor required to even be decent with non-radar AA, I propose an aim assist based partly on crew skills to compensate.

I want the longstanding argument on CAS ended permanently, ideally without “needing” to introduce any new game modes to placate certain people who refuse to learn the counters that do work against it. That means making the counters so easy to use and so effective that nobody has a right to complain “CAS OP” without first answering why they aren’t using the intended counters before ranting on the forums. It’s part of making any complaints about CAS solely the fault of the complainer, and not the game.

It can be sold as making SPAAGs actually fun to play, with the side effect of silencing folk complaining about CAS being “uncounterable.”

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Honestly, very well said!