Can confirm that something seems to be going on there. Idk If it’s some type of spall liner, or just additional armor, but I doubt they’d leave a crack going to the exterior of the turret lol.
Edit: can’t really tell if the circles are welds or not
it seems like a weld circle but it looks like an extra plate behind that weld circle the weld circle but it seems that it was made to hold together the upper part and the lower part it does seem like a spall liner or an extra plate but due to the way its held together it seems like its an extra plate
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i think video as evidence is fine, as long as it’s not a timed stuff. like rotation speed and acceleration, the type 81(c) proved it can go 90° or even back 180° with video proof.
Ever seen a Russian tanks? Why is a T-72B3 or T-80BVM well armored if that is impossible with such low weight? And those tanks (while only having 1.6t more) also have said protection all around, while Type 10s protection is mostly concentrated in a rather small frontal area, leaving sides and rear protected from only HMGs and some autocannon fire.
Of course it is, but we also have more detailed information that isn’t simply a PR statement. We know for a fact that from 250m distance, Type 10 turret face (specified cheeks and breech area), as well as the upper front plate are resistant to Type IV APFSDS, a precursor to Type 10 APFSDS.
I’ve done some rough estimations on performance a while back based on pixel measurement compared to Type 10 APFSDS and, while I am by no means saying this is accurate, got an estimated penetration of ~555mm at point blank (~593 with supposed 7% self sharpening, but I am not completely sure if that is how Gaijin does it), which seems reasonable compared to Type 10 APFSDS in game.
This means that, while still too small, and falsely oriented the UFP correction seems to be within resonable estimated minimum protection (as it is still possible for it to resist more than what we know for a fact it does), same for the turret cheeks. However with this we know that the breech is severely lacking in protection. Going just by the information we have it is supposed to have the very same resistance as the other mentioned areas, and assumptions on protection being lower than the cheeks should only be made while staying within those parameters.
And it is not, it’s only about 1.96x as effective (not more effective) as RHA. This comes from comparing the known tesile strength to RHA (1250MPa) and that of NCA (2451MPa). Since RHA has a modifier of 1x KE in game, this results in 1.9608x (1.96x for simplicity) KE for NCA.
For all we know they might be, but considering neither work with the weight constraints Japan does I’d assume a bit more weight at a much lower cost would seem more reasonable to them. Though the ZTQ-15 is a tank I could imagine to be a possible tank for something like this, being advertised essentially as a light tank with MBT protection (my knowledge on Chinese tanks is low though, so this might be very wrong)
As well as various types of hardened steel, which are also stronger than RHA. Nanocrystalline steel also isn’t some magic protection, it’s a form of hardened steel, a concept already represented in game as well.
While I don’t agree with your statements on Type 10s armor, I do agree it is perfroming rather well currently. I’d be perfectly fine with a statement from Gaijin that fixes will be applied once it is seen as balanced, with more advanced vehicles around. It doesn’t all need to be fixed right away, but the awareness from Gaijin should be there.
This should not be a competition at all, any issue should be fixed, no matter what nation. I also agree that statement seems a bit out of place.
Prototypes, even unfinished are nothing new in game and perfectly normal. However I agree things like the R2Y2s Ho-Ri or F-16AJ are just made up the way they are represented in game. Then again they don’t seem to want to add many real Japanese vehicles in their place that have been suggested to replace them, like the T-1s replacing the R2Y2s or the Type 99 SPG that many thought could replace the Ho-Ri production in the tree.
The F-16AJ however still has a chance to be replaced by a subtree F-16, which seems like exactly the low effort option Gaijin might actually do.
China also seems to have originally been added as a 90% cheap copy of existing vehicles to make a tree for the Chinese servers (going so far as to having even the wrong T-26 model afaik). While high tier is being expanded upon similar to other nations, and likely picking up quite fast considering the great amount of options China has, the lower ranks that were originally mostly copied stay neglected as lower tiers nowdays sadly are.
So I do see a pattern here, where Gaijin prefers copies of existing things (F-16AJ, Ho-Ri Production, Chinese lower tiers) instead of unique domestic additions.
Anyways instead of competing over who has the most issues, or what issues are worse, or what nation is “preferred” even though we know Gaijin just prefers what brings money, we should agree that all of these problems should be fixed and we should work to get that through to Gaijin instead of fighting eachother.
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Based comment right there , Also about the armor of type 10 i do not really care that much All i want is mobility fix and turret rotation speed and yes that dumping jumpy suspension also need to be fix as well it been 2 year yall know
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Oh, God. The same bigots we saw a few years ago have resurfaced.
So…we will prepare a political official document stating that “NC Steel” in “Japan” “does not have” the “*1.96” qualifier lol.
Yeah, in German 2x more would mean 1 + (1 × 2), so 3. I’m often a bit confused with English.
That fits NCA on the Type 10 then, since it’s said to be very expensive and reducing spall on it is also stated to have been a high priority for it, likely because it would otherwise spall way more compared to RHA. And even with the developments done I’d expect a bit higher spall compared to RHA, just maybe not almost twice as much.
Probably spall. I’d assume if that is the case it would only be used for the outer parts of the armor, essentially all but interior walls. This could also explain the “second wall” next to the commander, likely RHA or some other lower spall material.
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That was not a quote from anyone in this thread. It was a claim from the designers, not us. Are you seriously going to say that designers of a vehicle are going to say, “Yeah, its armor is not very good because it’s light”?
The majority of the armor complaints in this thread are due to the worse overall armor compared to the Type 90. Type 10 uses nanocrystalline steel (which is more like HHRHA), supposedly stopped its own shell (Type IV APFSDS, a protoype of Type 10 apfsds) and the composite in the turret and hull actually increased in weight compared to the type 90, from 1249 → 2680 in the hull and 1381 → 1940 in the turret.
spoiler
What are you on about with the armor being “extremly good”
Whats good about that? Oh wait my bad that was a 9.0 shell. let me do it against an 11.7 one.
Much better! all the parts you cant pen, only have a “chance” to not pen.
There are many such materials, a lot of ceramics like Silicon Carbide (SiC) and Boron Carbide (B4C), Ultra-High-Molecular-Weight Polyethylene, and in the case of the Type 10, nanocrystalline steel can achive such strengths. It’s not super difficult to find materials that are better than RHA; what makes it difficult is the cost and production difficulty. Why use such expensive, complex materials if you can just use more of the cheaper stuff if weight is not a concern? See the Sepv3 and Leopard 2A7V, which are both VERY heavy, very old, and don’t need to care about weight compared to the Type 10.
Also Japan did not develop this material, they just developed a realstic way to produce it in large number which makes sense because they where the largest exporter of steel in the world during the 2010s.
Ah yes, because such an under-developed military can’t field their own AESA missiles, AESA radars, MBTs with extremely complex transmission systems. It’s not like Japan is 6th on the global firepower index. Why don’t you go to the 2A7V thread and complain about how biased the Leopard is because such an under-developed military could never field a tank with good armor, after all, Germany is only ranked 19th and not 3rd like China. /s ;)
Subjective opinion, which is not worth discussing in this thread, please go to the off-topic section for that kind of discussion. I think there would be a lot of people who play France and Italy who would disagree with you. If you are so unhappy with the state of china, go to china fourms to complain. Dont go talk down on other nations MBTs and start a contest about which nation suffers the most.
And if we are going to compare issues with tanks ill join in too:
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- Armour has holes where its only 20-40mm
- Armour is not HHRHA or anything else to represent it being nanocrystaline steel
- Armour if flipped in the hull
- Turret rotation speeds are wrong
- Turret vertical speeds are wrong
- Reload is wrong
- Repleneshment rate is wrong
- missing CVT tranmsition
- wrong acceleration
- hydropneumatic its too slow
- hydropneumatic lacks use on the move function
- breech trunion has incorrect thickness
- breech trunion is hollow
- roof has incorrect thickness
- incorrect performance of the hydropneumatic suspension making it bump while moving if you set the supension too low
Im well aware i can make some of them into one issue, but neither did you so nethier will I.
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State the facts according to official documents. Type 10’s composite armor is 620mm “only for itself”.
Overall means overall, not just the parts that have armour, If the type 90 had the same optics and shell as the type 10, it would be better. It does not suffer from overpressure nearly as much as the type 10, it does not suffer against autocannoncs nearly as much as the type 10, and relative to its BR has much more usefull armour. I still often face BMP-2Ms or 2S38s in the type 10, which can very easily delete me.
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Literally 0 side armour, hell the compsite is not even angled like every other MBT.
And by overall i mean this, type 90 has some weakspots yea but not nearly this many.
The white parts are literally it when it comes to where type 10 stops shells.
Ah yes im biased. lol
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I have top tier in every nation. How the hell am I biased? I dont care if it gets these buffs or not, but fact is fact. The person with only china at top tier, with a bit of america, religously defending it is the non-biased one. ok:)
Bro thats from august???
The thread is not like that, calm yourself down it was a joke. Not a good one but you are taking it way too seriously
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Your getting mad over a comment from months ago which almost no one payed attention to…
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Recommend get out of here xD
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And when did i say that?
How is it that always the Chinese come in this kind of topic and start to have this monotone talk.
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Spoiler
None of that has to do with the Type 10; it’s either completely off-topic, insulting, or just denying and deflecting of our sources. You come in here, claim our sources to be propaganda, call us biased, and then go on rants about China. All you are doing is making it harder to use this thread to actually talk about the Type 10, without actually adding anything of true value.
There is a big diffrence between asking about the armour of the type 10, and asserting that its wrong and “biased”. As all that brings is fighting.
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Strongest China numwa 1 dude VS Weakest Japan main Big W for you Mr dragoon very Based love it
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Funny enough You keep discussing about other countries not using this new NanoCrystalineArmor when germany and américa has been developing this same material for years in fact the PUMA ifv it’s using it and américa plans on using it aswell due to its amazing properties over RHA.
You can literally search Nano Crystalline Steel in Google PDF and inmediately find signed PDF of tests done by both germany and the US, the composite in the type 10 it’s twice as heavy as the one found in the type 90 per module, but due to the decrease in size having a smaller engine and a much lighter frame and external armor the type 10 it’s noticeably lighter in fact literally 70% of the weight comes from the frame and external armor, the amor modules are concentrated in the front unlike other tanks that have some in the side and this is even said by japan that the 48 ton version just adds some armor in the side and it already adds extra 4 tons wich it’s a lot.
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