Japanese Messerschmitt Me 210 A-1 W.Nr.2102350

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Messerschmitt Me 210 A-1 W.Nr.2102350
The Messerschmitt Me 210 A-1 W.Nr.2102350 was a German heavy fighter purchased by Japan for testing in 1942. She was delivered to Japan in 1943, probably aboard U-180. The Japanese conducted a number of tests on the Me 210 and although they did not put it into service, it helped to develop the Ki-93 aircraft and the Japanese wanted to use remote-controlled defense turret technology in the Ki-74 aircraft.
History
History in Germany
Be warned, this will be a very shortened history in the German versions to the Me 210 A-1 version, because for the Japanese version it is unimportant, maybe in the future I will write about the German and Hungarian Me 210 aircraft, where the history will be more accurate.
In 1937, the Reich Air Ministry (RLM) had already begun to look for a successor to the Bf 110, although the aircraft was just beginning the production stage of the A-0 version, i.e. before production. The new heavy fighter was to have a longer range and better armament than the Bf 110, in addition, it was to be capable of bombing from horizontal and dive flight. The requirements also included better defensive armament in the form of two remote-controlled turrets. At the Messerschmitt factory, the new aircraft was designated P.1060 and was mainly based on the Bf 110 aircraft. The aircraft was to be powered by two Daimler-Benz 601F engines with a power of 1350 HP. As early as 1937, the project was accepted by the RLM and received the official name Me 210. At the end of 1938, a wooden mock-up of the Me 210 was ready. In the summer of 1939, the first prototype of the Me 210 V1 was ready, which made its first flight on September 5. The test pilots found out that the Me 210 V1 aircraft, which was lighter than planned (no armament), was still very unstable in flight and had too weak engines. The pilots of this aircraft recommended that the Me 210 be redesigned, but they were not listened to. From 16 to 17 prototype aircraft were built, designated from V1 to V17, respectively. All of them were used for various tests and a few crashed during the tests. The Me 210V17 aircraft, which was built in the autumn of 1941, was the first aircraft in the Me 210 A-0 version. In this version, the Me 210 was equipped with DB 601F engines instead of the DB 601A engines that were used in earlier prototypes. Probably 67 Me 210s in the A-0 version were built. The A-0 version differed from the first prototype in that they had a single tail, different cabin glazing, better engines and a few other details. They were mainly used for pilot training. The next version was the Me 210 A-1, which compared to the A-0 version, which had an elongated fuselage and automatic flaps. They were produced in several series at the same time as the A-0 version, i.e. from the autumn of 1941. Although this version was more successful than the A-0 version, it still had many problems.Attempts were made to save the Me 210 aircraft by designing a reconnaissance version of the B-0/1/2 and an improved fighter version of the C-1 and the Ca-1 version, which was produced mainly by the Hungarians. However, the fate of the aircraft in German production was sealed and in March 1942 it was decided to stop production of the Me 210 in German plants, although later a few more copies were produced. The Germans produced a total of about 325 Me 210 aircraft, in addition to 377 aircraft were built in Hungary. The unsuccessful Me 210 aircraft was transformed into the more successful Me 410 aircraft, which was not able to replace the successful, but at this point in the war (1942) the already obsolete Bf 110.

German Me 210

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History in Japan
The Japanese army and the Kawasaki plant in 1942 were interested in a new German heavy fighter/bomber due to the fact that the Japanese did not have any similar design. The Japanese commission, which was sent to Germany to bring the Me 210 A-1 aircraft, was impressed by this aircraft. Therefore, this aircraft was purchased and in January 1943 it was sent to Japan, probably on board the U-180 submarine. After reaching Japan, the aircraft is assembled at the Kawasaki plant in Akashi and the Japanese army begins to conduct tests on it. At first, the Japanese have high hopes for the Me 210 A-1, even considering production under license. But it soon turns out that this aeroplane is not manoeuvrable, and is very prone to falling into a spin which threatens the loss of the machine. In addition, during one of the test flights, the landing gear is damaged, and during landing, further damage occurs. Due to the lack of spare parts and the inability to deliver the appropriate parts from Germany, the aircraft is scrapped. However, Japanese designers use the technologies used in the Me 210 to develop the Ki-93 aircraft, and it was planned to use similar automatic cannons in the planned modernization of the Ki-74.

Photos of the Japanese Me 210 A-1

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Art about the Japanese Me 210 A-1

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Construction description
The Me 210 A-1 is a heavy two-engine low-wing fighter with an all-metal structure. It was powered by two DB 601F engines with 1350 hp. The crew cabin was located in the front and middle of the fuselage (the same as in the Me 410). Under the pilot, which was in the front of the cockpit, there was a bomb bay, and above the bomb bay with the pilot was the small arms of the aircraft. There is a window in the front part of the fuselage that helps during a dive attack. In front of the pilot there was an instrument panel, and in the middle part there was a narrowing that facilitated observation to the front and bottom of the aircraft. The canopy was opened to the right side. The windshield was made of 75mm thick bulletproof glass. On both sides of the pilot there were various instruments responsible for controlling: trimeters, engine operation, radiator, propeller pitch, magnetos, electrical system. On the right console of the instruments there were: inertial starter cable handles, rudder trimmer, oxygen and fuel system valves and instrument panel lighting dimmer. The seat was adapted to a seat parachute. The pilot’s seat was equipped with armor plates with a headrest with a pillow. Behind the compartment where the armament was located, there was a radio gunner. At the back of the cabin, there is a radio station and radio navigation instruments. Behind the crew cabin there was a compartment with two remote-controlled MG 131E 13 mm machine guns with ammunition in drum containers. The wings were tripartite consisting of a center wing with engine nacelles and two trapezoidal outer wings with round, enclosed tips. The flaps were metal construction and hydraulically driven. Air brakes were installed in the wing wings, which were hydraulically driven. The center wing and the outer wing had a slant of 6 degrees and 12.6 degrees, respectively, and the outer wings had a slight lift. The aircraft had a single vertical stabilizer and a two-part horizontal stabilizer. In the tail there was a place where the rear wheel of the landing gear was hidden. The chassis was in a classic layout. The wheels of the landing gear were 1015x380mm, they retracted backwards into the engine nacelles after a 90-degree rotation.

Sketches with construction details







Cockpit Photos



Technical sketches

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Armament
The armament of the Me 210 consisted of two fixed 20mm Mauser Mg 151/20E cannons with a supply of 350 rounds and two 7.92mm Rheinmetall-Borsing MG 17 machine guns with a supply of 1000 rounds per rifle. This armament was located on the bomb bay in the crew cabin. The defensive armament consisted of two 13mm Rheinmetall-Borsing MG 131E remote-controlled machine guns with a supply of 450 rounds per rifle. Defensive armament was divided into those carried inside the chamber and external mountings under the wings. The most common combinations of bombs are: 1 x PC 1000, 2 x SC 500, 2 x SC 250, 8 x SC 50 or 12 x SC 50.

Weapons assembly sketches



Photos of the Me 210 armament

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General characteristics

  • Crew: 2
  • Length: 12.27 m
  • Wingspan: 16.34 m
  • Height: 4.28 m
  • Wing area: 36.2 m2
  • Empty weight: 7,270 kg
  • Max takeoff weight: 9,770 kg
  • Fuel capacity: 2,420 l
  • Powerplant: 2 × Daimler-Benz DB 601F V-12 inverted liquid-cooled piston engine, 993,6 kW (1,350 hp)
  • Propellers: 3-bladed VDM 3S constant-speed propellers with a diameter of 3140 mm

Performance

  • Maximum speed: 563 km/h
  • Range: 1,820 km
  • Service ceiling: 9,150 m
  • Climb to altitude: 4,20 min to 4200 m

Armament

  1. Guns:
  • 2 x fixed cannons 20mm MG 151/20E cannons (350 rounds)
  • 2 x 7.98 caliber MG 17 fixed machine guns (1000 rounds per rifle)
  • 2 x 13mm MG 131 mobile remote-controlled machine guns (450 rounds per rifle)
  1. Bombs: maximum 1000 kg in the bomb bay and 200 kg under the wings
  • 1 x PC 1000 bombs (1000kg)
  • 2 x SD 500 Bombs (1000 kg)
  • 2 x SD 500 bombs + 4 x SC 50 bombs (1200 kg)
  • 2 x SC 250 bombs (500 kg)
  • 2 x SC 250 bombs + 4 x SC 50 bombs (700 kg)
  • 8 x SC 50 bombs (400 kg)
  • 12 x SC 50 Bombs (600 kg)

Armour

  • 75 mm Bulletproof Glass Windshield
  • The pilot’s seat is probably armored in the same way as in the Me 410 (12 mm)
  • Probably the aircraft was as armored as the Me 410 A-1

Special thanks

Summary
The Messerschmitt Me 210 A-1 W.Nr.2102350 aircraft would be a very interesting addition for Japan. It is ideally suited as a Premium/event aircraft. Japan in War Thunder does not have a similarly armed heavy fighter/bomber that would be at a low level. This aircraft is very similar to the Me 410 A-1, only it has a better bomb load at the price of inferior engines and being dangerous for pilots. Before someone accuses me of copy-pasting for this plane, I must remind you that there is no Me 210 in the game, but there is a development of it called Me 410. I encourage you to discuss in the comments and to share your own knowledge on this subject.
Finally, I apologize for the linguistic and logical errors because unfortunately English is not my main language and I had to use google translator.

Internet sources

メッサーシュミットMe210/410 - Wikipedia
Messerschmitt Me 210 - Wikipedia
Messerschmitt Me 210 Twin-Engine Heavy Fighter / Fighter-Bomber Aircraft (militaryfactory.com)
Messerschmitt Me 210 Evaluated by Japan - Destination’s Journey (destinationsjourney.com)
The Messerschmitt Me 210 - Weapons and Warfare
Messerschmitt Me 210: Photos, History, Specification (tvd.im)
Messerschmitt Me 210 - fighter (aviastar.org)
Luftwaffe Resource Center - German Luftwaffe (Air Force) from 1935-1945 - A Warbirds Resource Group Site
Messerschmitt Me 210 A-2 : Messerschmitt (valka.cz)
Уголок неба ¦ Messerschmitt Me.210 (airwar.ru)

Book sources
  • NR 559 Messerschmitt ME 210 Janusz Ledwoch
11 Likes

Eh, why not? Have a +1 from me. Would make for a neat premium, plus the 210 isn’t in game yet

+1 though i prefer if it’s gets Japanese bombs instead of German ones

I suspect Japan tested the German Bombs as well as their own. So feels like it makes more sense to have the Japanese bombs as an option. Perhaps even customizability.

4 Likes

The Japanese probably installed their own bombs on the Me 210, but probably, just like in the Fiat Br 20, this resulted in a decrease in the bombs’ carrying capacity. Japanese bombs had different dimensions than German or Italian bombs.

Do we know if they were compatible with the racks on the Me 210 is the thing. I mean wcs they could just directly translate the German bomb loads into the Japanese equivalents as long as there are no clipping issues.
Model 80 800kg
Type 92 500kg
Type 92 250kg
Type 94 50kg
in the different combinations equivalent to the german bomb loads. The big downside being the lack of 1000kg, instead only having the 800kg which is still strong.

What I mean is that, for example, two German 500kg bombs can fit into the bomb bay, but due to different dimensions, only one Japanese 500kg bomb can fit.

Are they that much bigger than the German equivalent? Honestly if it’s that bad then just give it German bombs as the biggest thing Japan is missing is higher bombloads.

I would have to check, but the best would be a combination of Japanese and German bombs.

-1 from me. Japan has plenty of aircraft in the pre-jet-age tiers as it is. They have no need for an aircraft that was only evaluated. If the ME 210 is to be added to War Thunder, it should be done in the German tech tree, not the Japanese tech tree even as an event vehicle.

After this Logic, Germany would need it even less since they have even more Aircraft in the pre-jet-age tiers then japan.
Still i think it would be a good addition since Japan doesnt really have a “Strike aircraft/Heavy Fighter” with a “large” bomb load configuration available.
But i dont want to start a huge argument with you so just meet at the midle and say the ME 210 as TT for Germany and for Japan as Premium/Event.

5 Likes

Just say no to copypasta.

1 Like

At this point, the Japanese Me-210 is not a copypasta. There is no Me-210 in War Thunder, only its successor, the Me-410

4 Likes

How does that give Japan the justification for having a foreign vehicle they only evaluated and never used in combat? If we use your logic, the US has a better argument for getting the Ki-200 or ME-163 as, to my recollection, they don’t have a similar rocket powered aircraft with high maneuverability and have owned and evaluated them. Such a thing, of course, should be considered absurd. Just as the US has no real need for those aircraft, Japan has no real need for the ME-210, especially if it’s going to be paygated.

EDIT: In addition, because the aircraft isn’t already in War Thunder, that would mean that the Japanese TT devs would have to spend resources developing a German aircraft that the Japanese barely used over either modeling a Japanese aircraft that can fulfill the same role, or modeling a Japanese aircraft that can fill out more important holes in the TT, like the massive one in the jet age? The reason why there is so much copy paste is because it is easy on Gaijin’s end as they don’t have to model an entirely new vehicle. The ME 210 would require new models to be made, at which point, again, it would be better to just go with an indigenous design.

Because they paid Germany for the vehicle, and kept it afterwards. Maybe start to ask the Russians where they got their Hurricane, Catalina or Sherman tank for example, this is a very common type of vehicle to become a premium.

As absurd as a US Ki-61, A6M2 or FW-190… You know where I’m going with this, right?

Please count me the dedicated strike aircraft in the Japanese tree. The only one I can think of is the Ki-102B, which is classed as an interceptor in game and doesn’t get the bombs and AP ammo it should have.

Any additional strike aircraft are welcome, and while Japanese options should be added in the techtree, the Me-210 is a welcome premium option.

6 Likes

So what justification had Germany then for getting the Yak 1B, IL 2 (1942), Wellington Mk 1C, etc.
With your logic none, since they all where just evaluated and never used in combat aswell.
Also they have their own Prototyps and Production aircraft to fill holes in the TT or giving them new Premiums.

I feel like you just turned a blind eye at my last sentence

How about we go from “it will be solely modeld so japan gets a new Premium/event plane” to “it will be modeld to go into the german TT as new adition, BUT since Japan bought one and evaluated it we can slap a diffrent camo on it and give the Japan Players a new Premium/event that fulfills a diffrent role then their usual indigenous designs”.

When we put it like that, there shouldnt be a problem on your side then.
And we know how much Gaijin Loves to model a Plane/Tank that they can yeet in diffrent Nations at once with just some minor diffrences (M109 cough cough, P51 razorback in sweden, china, japan, France)

4 Likes

I’m not omnipotent, but from what I recall they got those under lend lease and actually used them. The ME-210 was only evaluated, not used in operations.

Ah, so we agree that copy pasting vehicles into nations that never used them for actual operations is bad, yes?

There is only one strike aircraft ingame, yes, but Japan has numerous dive bombers that fill out that niche in the tiers the ME-210 would likely be at. It wouldn’t solve the TT’s lack of strike aircraft and would unlikely fill any holes even IF it isn’t locked behind a paywall.

I don’t have any, unless Germany actually used them for combat operations EDIT: Or if they were added before the nations they were from were added. I don’t like them being in the game, I don’t think they should be ingame, and exasperating the issue with the ME-210 only makes the issue worse.

Because we have more then enough copy paste as it is, and if Japan truly does have a deficiency in strike aircraft the last thing that should be done is encouraging Gaijin to put the remedy behind a paywall. Evaluated vehicles should only be put into TTs if either it’s progenitor nation isn’t in the game or there is literally nothing else that can serve it’s niche. And no, the problem wouldn’t be solved. The game has a massive issue with copy paste as it is, and that’s with vehicles which were ACTUALLY PUT INTO SERVICE BY THOSE COUNTRIES. Germany did use the M109G, Sweden used P-51s, and so on and so forth. Japan ONLY EVALUATED the ME 210, and there is no record of it being used in actual service. All it’s addition would do is exacerbate already extant issues for no good reason. Filling out holes in the TT can’t be used as a defense if it is behind a paywall.

Japan got only a single “offical” dedicated strike aircraft with the Name Ki 109.
But we could say that the Ki 45 otsu (got a 37mm with APHE), the Ki 102B ( if it would get its bombs and AP ammo) and the Ki 108 Kai(again a 37mm with the recent addition of target practice ammo with 51mm of pen at 10m) could be classifid as strike aircraft.

1 Like

Gaijin casually putting the first Toptier French IVF/ light tank (VBCI-2 (MCT-30)), french mains begged for years to be added, behind a 8910GE paywall to fill this gap.

As if Gaijin would care, if they made the model and it can be put in another nation as premium(premium because they just evaluated it, if they had them in service then as TT vehicle) to earn a quick buck, then they will probably do it.
in this case even more likely since we got already the A7He1, Bf109 E7 and Fw 190 A5 as premiums as they were just studid aswell.

And iam going to end the Debate here since i original didnt want to argue over this and you would just go on and on and not accepting a draw / meeting in the middle

In case I don’t see ya, good afternoon, good evening, and good night

1 Like

So one bad decision justifies another bad decision? The question never was could it be added, provided Germany gets it as well, there would be no new precedent set, assuming it were. But that’s not the question, the question is if it SHOULD be added, and the answer to that is no. It doesn’t solve anything, and makes already existing problems worse, and could set a really silly precedent if Japan gets a German aircraft before Germany.

So that makes it a good idea? I agree, all the copy-paste evaluated vehicle premiums are bad and shouldn’t be in the game. I see no reason to support implementing evaluated vehicles into TTs when they are either unnecessary or better options exist. The only times where evaluated non-indigenous can be justified is if there is literally no other option, or the nation from which it is from is not in the game.