I really don’t see the issue with both Germany AND Japan getting it, honestly. Nothing prevents Germany from getting a 210A variant, so why not make the most of the model and add it to everyone who can have it? Plus, captured/evaluation stuff, in my honest opinion, does make for perfect premiums with their history and being a different flavor than what you can find in the Tech tree. That said, I can’t wait until we finally get the Hungarian variants of the 210, where they essentially took the time to correct and fix most of the issues that made the 210 a lackluster aircraft. It’ll be interesting to see how it stacks up against the German models.
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It’s not an issue of Germany getting it, it’s an issue of why Japan should get it at all. Going off of the logic ‘if it’s there, why shouldn’t everyone who could get it have it?’ you can justify practically the entirety of the Japanese aviation and ground tech trees being put into the US TT. It doesn’t add anything to Japan, the Japanese never used it in actual service, and it contributes to the growing problem of copy paste vehicles.
I think you are missing the point still. Vehicles like this are perfect premiums.
They offer different and unique capabilities not found in the techtree, but also don’t really lock any gameplay behind a paywall since you could just get them in their home nation.
This would also mean that unique indigenous designs can be put in the tree, rather than being made premium/event exclusives.
As for an argument for Gaijin to add it, I’d buy it and I’m sure I’m not alone in that.
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No, the perfect premiums are vehicles like the M1 KVT or the Leopard Panzerbattalion 123. Vehicles already extant in the TT with a unique look. Vehicles that were captured/evaluated and not put into actual service are the worst premiums you can put into the game, being literal copy paste, unless you want to argue that Japan is more deserving of an aircraft they only evaluated over the nation that actually built and put the thing into service. Arguing that it should be added simply because people would pay for it is also a poor argument because that argument can be used to justify putting things like Tiger 2s and ME 262s into the American TT. Copy paste is a big enough issue with the game as it is, making it worse solves nothing and should NOT BE ENCOURAGED.
I can’t disagree here, those are the best from a player standpoint. Offering premium bonuses, but no gameplay not found in the tree.
I disagree here though. They are still easily better than locking unique vehicles behind a paywall.
They also generate more interest than purepy visual premiums. A player already playing Japan would generally be more interested in an Me-210 in the Japanese tree than a different camo for their Ki-102B turned premium.
Them being copy paste also takes away feom nothing, as if you don’t want to play them you can simply decide not to buy them. The whole argument brought up against it is players forced throught them as part of research, which wouldn’t even be the case here.
Essentially they don’t take away from anything, but players are more likely to buy them than visually different premiums. So when taking Gaijins perspective into account as well, these are prefect premiums.
Japan rightfully bought and owned it… Would be pretty fitting if players could do the same.
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Then I suppose that is simply a fundamental wall of differing opinion, though I feel you give way too much credit to people wanting captured and evaluated vehicles. Everytime premium, event, or tech tree vehicles are copy pasted the community hates it, even if they were used in actual service. Doing the same with a vehicle that was only ever evaluated, when there are countless other vehicles that could take it’s place instead, like a vehicle that is a minor modification of a TT vehicle, isn’t going to be taken well.
By that logic, you can, again, justify things such as American Tigers and Russian Maus, so if we are to be consistent, you would be in full support of those vehicles making their way into those TTs as events and premiums?
The Japanese bought Me 210, and the Americans and Russians captured these vehicles. I would like to see the American Tiger II. I don’t know if the Russians tested the Maus
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Now it dawned on me that you are the big complainer about the Ju-87 K-1 suggestion. Enjoy, soon I will write about a few American planes captured by the Japanese. You’ll have something to complain about. Have a nice day and enjoy complaining.
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With the amount of time you spend trying to get every foreign vehicle a Japenese man touched into the tree, you could have put forward as many indigenous designs, instead of advocating for watering down the tree with unnecessary foreign equipment.
And that is a terrible idea. The German mains were pissed when Sweden got their Tiger 2, they would riot if the US got one as well. As for the Russian evaluation of the Maus, I don’t know for certain, but I would be incredibly surprised if they didn’t. Regardless, the point is, simply giving every nation every vehicle they evaluated is a terrible idea, as then there would be little point in playing anything besides the US and Russia, especially with regards to Axis nations.
I offered 55 suggestions for Japanese aircraft. Of these, 41 are purely Japanese planes, 5 are foreign designs put into service in Japan, 1 is a captured plane used in combat, and the rest are planes tested by the Japanese.
So statistically speaking, I suggested more Japanese-designed planes than planes bought or captured
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And you could’ve proposed 5 more indigenous designs instead of advocating for mindless copy-paste, which is already a big enough issue as it is with vehicles put into ACTUAL service by the respective nations. Only one of those I would be fine with, but the rest make as much sense as American or Russian Centaros.
Whatever you call it, I don’t like monotony. Sometimes it’s better to write about a captured plane (history of capture, tests on it, etc.) than to write about planes that are sometimes very similar to each other.
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That doesn’t make them good ideas to be implemented into the game. If you want to write about them, that’s fine, but that won’t make them good options for implementation. We have enough copy paste as it is, we don’t need more then what is necessary.
Are they that bad? They are often much better armed than their Japanese counterparts, for example Ki-43/44 vs P-40E or Ki-45 vs Me 210.
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The Soviets didn’t do much with the Maus except shoot at it for a few years. During that time, they also stripped it of everything of value, hence why it’s an empty shell these days.
As for the American Tiger IIs, technically, both of the ones that were captured were operational, and one of them was used in action. Tiger II, with the number 332, was commandeered by a Sherman Crew, who then drove it towards German lines with the intention of surprising the Germans. Unfortunately for them, the Tiger II ran out of fuel before they could find any enemies. The tank was later recovered and is displayed at the National Armor and Cavalry Collection. The other Tiger II was captured near Düren by B company of the 129th Repair Battalion and was driven back to Allied lines and repaired. Initially, there were a couple of proposals to use it as a battering ram, but Ordnance found out and seized it before any such shenanigans could be attempted.
Honestly, both of those scream perfect premium candidates to me. They certainly have unique histories, and not to mention, the one taken near Düren even had standard US Army camo and markings applied for its proposed use. Honestly, I wouldn’t be opposed to seeing them as premiums just considering they have such interesting histories, and I figure they’d actually sell pretty well. Ditto with Tiger 131
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Armament is irrelevant. The issue at hand is foreign equipment that was (usually, anyway) only ever evaluated being put into TT for no good reason. They don’t add anything to the tree and contribute to the chronic issue of copy paste War thunder has been experiencing for a while now.
Eh, one of those stories is a pretty generic story of a captured vehicle. Maybe if the did actually use it as a battering ram, I would be down, but that plan never materialized. The other is close enough to the traditional stories of captured vehicles, that I would rather not, though I would say that it is close. And the only way I would accept Tiger 131 in the British tech tree would be if a majority of the proceeds would go to the tank museum as, while it would still have the issues of other captured vehicles, I’m willing to let that slide if it means that the people who safeguard the history War Thunder is based on get more funds to do their work.
How exactly can a tree be “watered down” by purely optional premium vehicles, which most if not all of these would be?
A premium by definition is not something you need to play, but an option for you to buy. Don’t care for it? Don’t buy it then. Do care for it? Have fun with your premium.
You’re not taking anything away by adding it, just giving those that want it an option to get it.
Sadly the functional Maus prototype was detonated, and the Soviets had to replace hull number 2 with hull number 1 for tests. I don’t think this was fully functional, but since they started shooting it and taking it apart from the inside out anyways I doubt it.
So Soviet Maus would either just be a Maus with a worse engine, or more likely non functional.
Even then there is a separation between vehicles bought and evaluated for adoption into service, and those simply evaluated from the enemy.
The first is no different from any other prototype, which we have a lot of, and will keep getting a lot of.
And there is nothing wrong with copy paste if it is optional. Do I want to be forced through the same vehicle in 10 trees? Not really.
But if I have the option to buy a vehicle I liked before in another tree for a different nations lineup, I see that differently and might want it. And if I don’t, I don’t buy it and it won’t concern me, simple as.
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This was worst arguments in history of arguments, meybe ever.
This guy made something like 2/3-3/4 of Japan air suggestions and you came with this? XDD
you are denying yourself
Finally, your whole rant is unnecessary, as from all possibile and implemented foreign aircrafts for japan this one gives most to gameplay. This is great(unless implemented with real flight model) attacker much need because dive bombers are either too fragile, too vunerable or have not enough bombs to be effective as attacker
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Because copy paste decreases the uniqueness of the trees by it’s very nature, both the nation it originates from and the nation that receives it, and you can’t exactly ban specific vehicles from popping up in matchmaking. Even if I don’t buy it, it will still pop up when I play the game. It takes away from the point of nations, and while I can understand it when you run into the case of having little else to add, I don’t see the point in implementing unnecessary copy paste vehicles that don’t have any place in the TT.
No, god no. Foreign vehicles purchased for evaluation are wildly different from actual prototypes. One of these is a wholly unique indigenous vehicle created for the purpose of either experimentation or possible adoption, whereas the other is a design that has already finished it’s initial development cycle and has been put on to market. These are two wildly different things and should not be conflated.
As for the separation between captured and evaluated, not really. Putting aside the cases where captured vehicles were used in service, which is very much the minority, both were only ever poked around and never put into service, and would only contribute to the growing issue of copy paste if they were implemented, the only difference is in how they were acquired.
No. Copy paste is bad regardless of how it’s gated. At best, premium and event copy paste contributes to the issue less then tech tree copy paste, but it still contributes at the end of the day, and I see no reason to encourage making the issue worse in most any capacity.
Your point? He still could’ve put in additional suggestions for indigenous aircraft instead, and while I understand he wanted to shake up what he researches, that does not make a Japanese ME 210 a good idea, and the same can be said for the other relevant suggestions.
No, it really wouldn’t. If Japan does, truly, have an issue with a lack of attacker aircraft, the last thing we should do is encourage Gaijin to release the solution behind a paywall. Perhaps it is a good option out of all the evaluated foreign vehicles Japan could get, but evaluated foreign vehicles are a terrible idea in the first place. It wouldn’t solve anything, and only worsen the copy paste issue.
“Repaired”? More like trashed. IF this is put into the game, then it should have less traverse & accuracy than a drunk Stug III equipped with a misaligned weapon:
plus 4 x SC 50 bombs (200 kg) = 12 x SC 50 bombs (600 kg)
The same bomb load as the Me 410 A-1:
More information:
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