Good to know.
I’m glad it’s not just 29SMT issue as it’s honestly really annoying.
Awareness in that situation goes both ways sadly. If I’m flanking and I ping flanking EFT, he (probably) gets M29 RWR ping and invites himself to a free dinner.
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I think that’s a terrible position to hold, but you’re entitled to it obviously.
As someone else sort of said, it’s almost akin to comparing an ariete to an Abrams. It’s just outclassed in most ways.
Just to let you by all definition of the word you are being disingenious.
He has conceded points, specifically armour.
Mobility hes came up with a control test to show how both tanks compare.
Which is quite reasonable as far as tests go.
Second of all, hes being incredibly civil discussing, however you are not.
Abrams is on par with the 2a5 and A6, its firepower overall is far superior due to the fire rate and second best round and that includes its superior to the 2a7
Mobility is up for debate but i believe it is the abrams that wins that.
Armour 2a7 wins, abrams turret is superior though the hull is not.
The tanks ,leopard 2a7, 2a7HU and the strv 122 all should be a step above the rest.
While the abrams is not on par completely with the 2a7 it sure as hell isnt far behind it.
How is the m829a2 superior to the dm63(I think it’s called).
I think it’s pretty easily verifiable that’s it’s not, and the turret it also weaker as well as the frontal armor array
because the abrams reloads a whole second faster, which is a huge advantage.
My friend, you said the round. The round is not superior.
Edit: I read that wrong, you combined the reload with it. My bad. That’s debatable, and fair and up for debate, I thought you flat out limited and said “round” that’s my reading comprehension problem, my bad.
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IIRC the Abrams gun is an American L/44, and the DM53/63 pen is identical out of 120mm guns, so I can use the DM53 out of the L/44 to compare the two, so the M829a2 would have better pen out of the same gun than the DM53/63, I can’t say anything about spalling though.
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“its firepower overall is far superior due to the fire rate and second best round and that includes its superior to the 2a7”
second best round, key words there.
Edit technically if the abrams had an L/55 gun it the m829A2 would have higher penetration, but seeing as its L/44 its less overall, but not by much.
you try not to put the abrams in a position it can get hit there though, its not as glaring as you may think. what does need changed is the fuel tanks need thicker armour and a plethora of other little changes that @SPANISH_AVENGER knows better than me.
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The turret ring is quite a crippling weakness though in my opinion, it’s fairly easy to hit and has devastating effects on the tank.
Remember the mobile infantry event? When I played the T-80 on the Russian side, I quickly found out it was very easy to take out Abrams through the turret ring even with 0 previous experience in top tier MBT
You’re right, I edited my comment before you responses when I looked at it again. You just didn’t see it befor responding, I was wrong:
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Okay it looks like there isn’t an immediate difference in spalling on tests, I would like to say the M829m2 is better but if it is it isn’t noticeable, so it’s only a bit better than the DM53/63, a minor point towards the Abrams, but both rounds are good enough really, so I won’t use it to argue my case.
yeah i just seen that, regardless of it all, if they fixed the abrams fuel tank armour, spalling etc it would generally put it neck and neck with say the 2A7.
overall the abrams combination of what it has makes it so deadly.
the DM53/63 is the best in game, M829A2 is second best, however the firepower of abrams is better due to the full second faster reload.
Shouldn’t DU have incendiary spall, and a lot of it, which isn’t modelled in-game? If it had this I would agree the Abrams is better in this field, but as it is now, even you have admitted any difference isn’t noticeable so it should be a tie
the abrams in the firepower department is better due to the reload giving it the edge of a full second.
Same as people saying the type 10 with a 4 second reload is a massive advantage
My previous message mentioned that the DM53/63 has a disadvantage in pen.
I am aware, but he was specifically talking about spalling no? If Abrams did have correct DU shell spalling, it would undoubtedly be the tank with the most firepower in game , but as it stands now it does have 2a7 (ik reload and stuff but it has better ballistics and better raw pen) and Type 10 as rough equals in that department
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Combining this message with my assessment that their spall is about even is where I gave it slightly to the Abrams, but like I said, I don’t think it matters enough for me to give a full point to the Abrams there.
629mm on 829A2 vs 655 on DM53 out of the l55 and 623 out of the L44 which i doubt is noticeable
2A5 and PSO have equal to best turret armor to the M1A1/2 armor scheme, 2A6 and 2A7 not only have that, but extra +23mm of pen with DM53, along a hefty improvement in 30° pen stats.
Being disingenuous is not a civil behavior, disguise it as such if you like, if that is your belief. Siding Any M1A2 onwards with Leopards it’s an absurd comparison that only holds up on cherrypicked stats that holds no practical use in reality.
you draw the firepower, but you wouldn’t need a good reload speed if your round actually manages to penetrate and do substantial postpen. Russian T-80BVM and T-90M literally holds up decent enough because they can penetrate most if not all NATO front plates except 122s/2A7V, while being capable of withstanding most of NATO shells in the upper front plate, not being the case in the opposite way in most of cases.
So, a tank on par with the 2A7/122s (no brainer capable tanks) needs an actual specific playstyle to thrive, unlike even the T-90M? It’s such a curious premise.