I’ll go take a look at the low speed acceleration, as well as the turret rotation speed before I bring those into the equation, but having a better firing arc, better reload speed, and better ability to find favorable positions and force the enemy to push them due to higher speed overall is major, but allow me to take a look at turret rotation speed and the difference in low speed acceleration as well, as if these are in the Leopard 2s favor greatly, I may alter my opinion slightly.
It would be helpful if I could see where the low speed acceleration stat is coming from and by how much it is in the Leopard’s favor according to said tests.
Of note, horizontal turret rotation speed between Leo 2a7v and Abrams Sep V2 are identical.
I’m pretty sure necron has it somewhere on here. Though going to find it would probably be a much longer process than just trying it yourself. I think it takes till about 20-30km before your accelerations level and Abrams starts over taking. So in city locations, close quarters brawling, you can get in and out of positions better.
Ask @MotorolaCRO or @UniqueScorpions or one of the other dudes who plays RU a lot. I’m pretty sure I’ve always seen them in the Abrams threads when big discussions take place. They might remember it more clearly.
With the most recent nerf, the look behind is worse than an Abrams, but it’s like being the smartest kid with Down syndrome. You’re both retards and can’t look behind you.
Alright, then for the time being I’ll leave that point aside, I won’t just assume you’re wrong due to not having the source ready, but if it winds up being unnoticable, I’d probably just leave it as minor enough that it doesn’t count as a point for either vehicle.
But this is just me taking the Abrams and trying to compare it to what people largely think is the strongest MBT in the game, and again, you get a lot more Abrams roughly equal to the SEP in everything except imaging, as outside of the M1a1 AIM, which does have a worse round, most Abrams with the 120mm are identical minus the thermal imaging, there is only 1 Leopard 2a7v in Germany or Italy, and 3 in Sweden, but they all lack Thermal imaging and have a worse round than the Ger/Hun 2a7vs and Abrams.
And the fact that I can even compare them as relative equals is pretty clear indication that the US mbt line is definitely not the reason for the US winrates being by far the worst of any nation, lineup wise as a whole package, I don’t think anything beats the US.
I have never said it was, I agree it’s the prem player spam. Which is the perfect nerf to probably the best developed tree overall lol.
They aren’t relative equals, but the problem at the end of the day is the players. Average Abrams top tier players that grinded the tree are as good as any other nations players. My stat checking backs this up clearly across the many players I’ve checked.
You just can’t balance out the bad players that normally make up over half your team and are gone so quick and think trading 1:1 is a good thing.
Sadly those charts from Necron are buried in hundreds of posts in one of the threads regarding base M1. I’m almost sure it was in this thread, so whoever wants to scroll through all of that, be my guest.
I remember it as low speed, up to around 20-30km the Leo wins, and above that, the Abrams wins. Trying to see if I can get a co-signer to my statement because I am not looking through all that again to find it lol
Not really as the discussion was mostly focused around base M1 and it’s contemporaries like 80B and 2A4, so looking at other vehicle’s data wasn’t my goal.
Precisely, this is the core issue, and it’s not one that’s reversible, largely, the 2a7v comparison is just a point, if I can make a decent case for them being equal, which I do genuinely believe they are, it’s just the Leopard 2a7v has an “easier” and more direct optimal playstyle, then I can’t imagine any lesser tank being equal to the Abrams.
Makes me sad playing the Merkavas lol. Grinding for the new Namer rn, and honestly… when I watch Trophy just consistently fail to work on my Mk4M… I’d be lying if I said all my motivation to grind Tsrikhon wasn’t fading away.
Feel so cheated everytime a BMP2M / BMD4M just get’s to yeet me with his ATGM’s. These tanks sacrifice every ounce of physical protection for this gimmick, and it doesn’t even work lol.
Its the meta effect, even if they are close.to equal, personally dont believe so, but numerical wise.
If everyone believes the 2a7 is tbe business, it attracts more players and even more of the good/brilliant players who make it seem even better .
Look at russia now when the 2a7 released rhe win rate tanked.
The 2a7 didnt effect the game that much, the player base shifting did.
I believe its a combo shot of it all, not just the abrams.is bad, or the 2a7 is better.
Look when the m1 released the US win rates where what ? 70 percent odds if memory serves me right.
I di wish we could see the sep v3 but to balance it out a bit.
To be fair you may not have been there and won’t know what I’m talking about. I just associate you with Russian threads and arguing Abrams threads.
Were you there when necrons talked about and posted the table with the acceleration times? I thought it said 2a7s have better low speed acceleration and then Abrams do better at mid to top range. Do you remember this or no? I’m not searching through that thread again to find it.
I don’t play US, but playing ISR i always play alongside them. And yeah. Everything you wrote is my shared experience.
Same thing everygame. 50-75% of the team is back in hangar within <5 minutes. Small handful of guys, with actual top tier lineups (And going deep into them) trying their hardest to get over the line, but the burden is just too great to overcome.
I see lots of US players who are absolute monsters. And the rare times we win, it’s because these guys carried their socks off. But they just don’t make up anywhere near enough of each team to do it consistently.
Any shortcomings US has in it’s top tier (In the tech tree) vehicles, pales in comparison to the issue that most of the team isn’t even using those top tier vehicles in the first place. They’re exclusively using what’s found on the Gaijin store lol.
It happens to everyone, yes, just at top tier, it’s happening to the US the most. RU experiences a similar problem for similar reasons at 10.3.
I see the logic behind it, but this is a double edged sword. Putting significant buffer between a collapsing front & the spawn may encourage some people to go again, but likewise, it will discourage others from spawning again because they’re not interested in a long drive just to get back to that losing situation. We live in the Zoomer attention span era of humanity. Maybe if Snail struck some deals to have Subway surfer / family guy clips play on the bottom half of the screen it might work.
Pretty much any nation besides Germany and Sweden have the sweet 1 lifers.
It mainly happens between USA and Russia, as USA players don’t play their vehicles correctly and then get mad and leave (yes that is a skill issue, argue it if you see fit but it’s true). Meanwhile Russia has terrible reverse speeds and reloads for top tier. T-90m is more survival but you lose pretty much everything that makes top tier tanks viable: speed & reload speed. But let’s be honest, the T-80BVM is a glass cannon now adays. (I do find it odd, maybe it’s German bias, but the Turm III seems to not care if Russian tanks have era and you hit it with a HEAT-FS)
But the Leo 2a7s (and the like) are pretty good jack of all trades. Sporting the best armor, best pen, and a good reload, with good speed.
Well, I’m sick of playing maps like Normandy, or hurtgen forest where the enemy team just runs to spawn camp and the whole match is over in less than 4 mins that is not fun at allthis is why I’ve been playing 4.0 - 8.0 far more
A set of maps 80% the size of red desert would be a good compromise. And while I’m talking about, wtf is up with the spawns out in the open begging for spawn camping??