I’d like to see some evidence comparing before and after they were added if that would be alright, I can’t take that at face value as I haven’t been able to see any difference, however them losing their ability to reload shells on hit does make them useless even if they do survive, and Russian MBTs can’t exactly mount a speedy retreat.
As for much better protection, their turrets are among the best, as for their hulls, the only tanks I can think of that are anything notable are certain Leopard 2s, though I’d argue they have their own sets of weaknesses and are roughly Abrams adjacent, also, the sheer volume of good Abrams the US can bring has to count for something.
Yes, the Abrams is not the absolute best at everything, but as a package, it’s pretty much better than everything except arguably the 2 12.0 russian MBTs, and the 2a7 and cohorts, but even then, it’s arguable
If the idea is that it should have equal armor to a 2a7, better reload, better mobility, as well as spall protection in order to be equal to the other best tanks in the game, I can’t agree.
Clicks on Leopard’s turret cheek or T-tank’s UFP.
Non-penetration.
Gets killed in return.
Even the most dumb tank vs tank engagement sounds like a chess game when compared to top tier Air.
Something being fair is far from a personal opinion.
One game mode requiring players to gather 30m RP (placeholder numbers) in order to be fully competitive.
Another game mode requiring players to gather 5m RP in order to be fully competitive.
Players of the first mode will have to spend much more time in order to fully enjoy their game mode, which makes literally no sense in the current state of the game. Only time this would be okay is if Ground had it’s own mode where players only need to grind a single TT in order to be fully competitive, thus reducing RP costs.
Can you start a GRB game without a tank in your lineup ? No.
Can you start a GRB game without plane/heli in your lineup ? Yes.
All I’m saying that people should have access to competitive ground options, as getting to aircraft requires a big investment and to be fair, some people dislike them in the first place.
I believe this is perfectly fine to discuss as long as we have CAP as the best (or often times, only) counter to CAS.
Now this can lead to a point which isn’t simply CAS greivances, air rb requires less rp to research because you spawn in with only 1 aircraft, wheras ground allows lineups, and most players will GE crew slots to bring more vehicles, this is just the nature of the game modes. The only way to equalize rp required to play each mode would be to reduce the allowed number of vehicles spawned in ground to 1, or to make air have full lineups.
Both of these sound like terrible ideas to fix something that isn’t really a problem.
It’s not arguable lol, it is just straight up worse than the 2A7s and 122s.
The 2A7s/122s tanks are about on par mobility wise compared to most Abrams (excluding the SEPv2) while having a worse reload at the cost of having massively, and I mean absolutely infinitely, better armor and survivability than the Abrams.
This is based on my experience and the people I play with regularly. Not feasible to do before/after tests when we didn’t know the change was coming and that it was going to be bad faith. Objectively speaking the ammo is now encased in a module that didn’t exist before, and modules absorb fragments, so it makes sense that overall it’s a plus for survivability as long as the T80 isn’t mid-reload. (actually it’s always a plus, being alive is always going to be better than being blown up)
An abrams hull down is easy to kill with 3OF26 (especially those with lots of crap on the roof), meanwhile Abrams is not even allowed to have an HE round.
The layout and size of the weakspots also gives the advantage to the russians. They are simply smaller and less obvious than the Abrams, so there is much less room for error. The LFP is also hidden by a rubber flap which makes it look larger, the driver hatch is bordered by ERA that will completely negate a shot even with a volumetric hit, the T90M breech is also protected by a trolly piece of RHA, and of course the vast majority of russian mains love to use bushes to make those already disgusting weak spots even harder to hit.
Meanwhile you can shoot anywhere on the abrams except the turret cheeks and the UFP, and reliably disable it
They have spall liner and a superior ufp, yes, I would agree, but their mobility is generally somewhat inferior, not too confident on the SEP v2 without modifications.
In exchange for no spall liner and worse frontal hull protection, you recieve a 2 second reload advantage, which is substantial, you recieve a more favorable platform for brawling (mainly that you don’t have to deal with the new firing arc nerfs to the Leopard 2s), and you can spawn in far more than even Sweden, let alone Germany or Italy before you see a substantial downgrade.
Personally I’d rather have the US MBT lineup than even Sweden, which is the strongst thing I can compare it to, but if you’d prefer Sweden, that’s fine, if the Abrams had armor equal to that of a Leo 2a7v and spall liner that would be absurd.
The g load being higher or whatever it is, means it beats it in that category, yes. Unless they’ve buffed the speed however, the panties missiles are like 80% faster. It’s not really even close.
As I said though, a buff is a buff and a welcomed one at that… buts it’s still outclassed regardless of this as we both agree.
Their mobility is close enough to not really be a factor.
*1 second
Leopard reload is 6 seconds ace compared to the 5 second ace reload on the Abrams.
It’s not that much more favorable when your tanks is so farmable frontally. Can’t remember the last time I faced an Abrams that took me more than 2 rounds to finished off in a normal engagement.
I’m not that good of a player, but when I still played my 2A7HU I could just turn all my brain off and still get slightly over a 2 K/D. If you can replicate that in an Abrams (so no sneaky flanking, only braindead gameplay) I’ll accept the SEPv1 as a counterpart to the 2A7s/122s.
Great, you’ve been aiming for weak points on the Abrams, as have I, generally no tank at top tier is lacking any large weak points that will disable the tank, leopard 2s included. For the Abrams, the large turret ring is the best point for a kill, lfp can work, but it’s unreliable, as is breach, the Leopard 2a7v and co have better hull protection than the Abrams and the notable benefit of spall liners, but their lfp and breach as well as driver’s hatch are still quite exposed weak points that can kill the tank.
The leopard 2 is a meta tank that is conducive to holding center roads, the Abrams, as you might guess, is a superior flanking tank, it does well in hull down arguably slighlty better due to the reload speed. Well, that and the fact you get many good Abrams whereas Italy, the nation you mentioned, has one leopard 2a7v, an amazing tank for sure, not contesting that, but I’m not convinced it outclasses the Abrams, and there is only one or two depending on if you hoard backups or not.
I agree with the commenter below you, automates modules were much more of a buff than they were a nerf. Generally if your autoloader gets hit, it’s because it’s saved your ammo from detonating. Otherwise you generally go boom. On things like a 2s38 or light tank auto cannons, people welcome the change, but for tanks it became a de facto armor appliqué to the ammo.
This has been a bane to my existence and a savior as well lol
I second this fully, and one need only look at their stats to see as much for the average player.
You’ll find their leo2a7s near 1.5-2 kd and their Abrams stats a dumpster fire like everyone else’s lol. It’s just shows where you’ll probably be in META tanks. Backed up by personal experience checking this many times when I see a Leo or Strv on my team(or the enemies) and I go check their stats to see how I stack up against them in similar tanks we both have.
This is a problem on it’s own actually as it further reduces the RP needed to stay fully competitive.
As ARB is a single spawn mode, people can literally ignore whole lines and still be able to unlock top tier vehicles in a “good” line.
For example, in RU TT you can totally ignore Yak and Su-25 line and focus on MiG/Su-27 lines.
In German TT you can totally ignore Tornado/Su-22/MiG-23 line and focus on EFT and MiG-29 ones.
In Ground however, you can spawn multiple vehicles that all have niches and use cases depending on a situation/map, so researching all lines is actually beneficial for the player.
It doesn’t even need to be fully equalized, as even some reduction in RP/SL needed is more than welcomed.
This is a big problem for people, as some nations have godawful AA options and the next best thing is locked behind a completely different vehicle class and several million RP/SL. No wonder people ODL this much.