Doesn’t your suggestion also belong in the suggestions section?
But we get to vote! We have power!
The fact that they are pre-determined choices created by snail and thus they are okay with either one of them, and even though they’re poorly explained and seemingly already in development prior to the proposal, and even though we voted no’ on some of them they seemingly are still planning to push it through anyways… we got to vote right!
Definitely not the illusion of choice at play here…
Wow that was quick. You must have been very salty. lol.
You’re amusing, I correctly predicted what you’d say because you don’t seem to like making actual comparions that have even starting points because it doesn’t conform to your point.
I’d love a personal demonstration of it being repeated. You should be able to do that right? Since it’s so easy?
Fighters countering fighters is very much a valid argument because it is a combined arms game. You just don’t like the fact that there are counters within the game that you don’t want to play, and your experience is worse because of it. You not using features to your benefit is not Gaijin’s problem, that is your own problem. An F-16 (or any 12.0-12.7 aircraft) could easily counter that other F-16 (with the Mavericks) or the Su-25. Combined arms fighting against combined arms.
Provide a solution then that is fair to the spawning and also fair to the ones who played better and overwhelmed the enemy team. I provided examples of why it wouldn’t work regardless of how the spawns operated.
Someone was.
Yes, I am aware scouting can lower spawn points for CAS. Noone mentions in their discussion about CAS, and I don’t mention it either. When I see people mention getting a single kill and then spawning a plane I assume that is the absolute minimum being done because then their argument doesn’t stand up. Getting a single kill and scouting multiple targets that are then destroyed by teammates for the bonus is much more difficult/team dependant than getting a single kill alone.
You’re amusing, I correctly predicted what you’d say because you don’t seem to like making actual comparions that have even starting points because it doesn’t conform to your point.
Yeah, I will also predict that you will counter my argument, and then I’ll also act smug about it as if that is not how a discussion works.
I’d love a personal demonstration of it being repeated. You should be able to do that right? Since it’s so easy?
No, since the tree requires millions upon millions of RP and a year later we still don’t have any of the promised RP reductions and I am nowhere near to getting it whilst the nations I do play do not have anything like it.
Fighters countering fighters is very much a valid argument because it is a combined arms game.
Counters require something to counter, having to spawn an expensive fighter and just flying around aimlessly in the hopes that something will actually spawn in in order for you to be able to do something is a horrible way to spend your time. SPAA suffers from the same issue, CAS on the other hand always has valid targets.
Add in more mechanics to the game that make it worthwhile for fighters and SPAA to exist without having to rely on the enemy team spawning CAS, which is something that might not happen at all.
And even if they do spawn, the rewards are bad enough that it’s not worthwhile still, so you end up spawning an MBT so you can kill enemy tanks and capture zones to get more rewards than sitting in an SPAA doing nothing for 10 minutes to only get killed by an Su from 10km away.
Provide a solution then that is fair to the spawning and also fair to the ones who played better and overwhelmed the enemy team.
Not spawning players in an open field, that’s it. Being overwhelmed is not what is being discussed here, the problem is spawning in mid game and getting sniped from across the map because of this atrocious map design, it’s not that complicated.
It is incredibly easy as you still get the scout reward even if the person only dies seconds later. You don’t even need them to die to get the 14% reduction in SP cost. Any half decent player will have very few issues getting a kill and a scout or two, hell you can scout and kill the same person or get a scout + kill assist too. You can see this quite a bit in the ~10.0 BR range, often with prems and its usually BMP-2M → SU25K or Wolfpack → A-10A / A-6E. It can go even faster if you kill someone who’s in a higher BR. This is often done by people who bought their way to top tier.
Saying things are irrelevant because you don’t agree isn’t how a discussion works either.
So it isn’t as easy to do as you say. Weird, almost like the aircraft tree requires a whole seperate amount of work to aquire and then learn to properly utilize the strengths of the weapons and airframes.
Ok, now that you’ve found a possible solution now suggest changes to those areas on the maps effected.
Reactive instead of proactive. Again, sounds like a personal issue. I usually second spawn SPAA for the betterment of my team regardless of if there is air raft or not. I though aircraft were super cheap because “cas is so easy to spawn”, air to air fighters are the cheapest fixed wing aircraft to spawn so SP cost shouldn’t be an issue if you get a kill or cap.
It is worthwhile, especially at 7.7 and above. I used the ZSU-37-2, one of the more difficult radar guided SPAA, and got 5 kills and was fighting two helicopters at the end of the game. Rewards being “too low” is a pretty terrible excuse for you to not counter something that is giving you issues. I managed to spade the M247 and I will probably spade the Imp Chapparal before I will spade my MBT-70 even though I got the MBT-70 first.
Saying things are irrelevant because you don’t agree isn’t how a discussion works either.
Calling things irrelevant that are irrelevant is.
So it isn’t as easy to do as you say. Weird.
The ability to use a vehicle has little to do with the grind to get there.
Utilizing the strengths just means abusing the obvious weakness that SPAA has.
Almost like a top down attack is a good idea.
Ok, now that you’ve found a possible solution now suggest changes to those areas on the maps effected.
Yeah… no one in the last 10 years has figured this one out.
250 pages discussing these issues but no one ever thought to suggest to now spawn in an open field.
usually second spawn SPAA for the betterment of my team regardless of if there is air raft or not.
And actively sacrificing your RP and SL gain for doing so, sounds like flawless game design.
I though aircraft were super cheap because “cas is so easy to spawn”
The cost/value of CAS is far greater than the cost/value of a fighter.
Rewards being “too low” is a pretty terrible excuse for you to not counter something that is giving you issues.
Not playing the game you want to play and not progressing in the game as a default way to play, great.
I’ll have to personally check the 7-14 percent SP cost reduction after work. Not that I don’t trust you specifically, but the wiki describes it as a scouted target being destroyed to reward the SP reduction. I want to verify how it works before I discuss it futher because of the conflicting information.
All a matter of opinion. Saying irrelevant to everything just shuts down discorse because you think your position is superior and other information doesn’t matter. That isn’t how facts work, nor discussion.
Top down attacks are easy to counter with SARH missiles because the aircraft has no ground cover and is an easy target during the attack. Again, counters exist.
You choosing not to counter something is a personal problem.
Yea, so why did you mention fighters as “expensive”? It’s cheaper to spawn dedicated fighters than CAs aircraft. The effectiveness is worth the SP to be able to counter the CAS more effectively.
You came to a game with combined arms game modes and refuse to play in a combined arms style. This is your own problem. I have the ability to counter CAS effectively at all levels because I leverage every vehicle type to effectively deal with it.
Right before the spot you pulled from it mentions it as a reward for a target dying because of the scouting. Again, I want to check personally to verify how the system works before discussing it.
Top down attacks are easy to counter with SARH missiles because the aircraft has no ground cover and is an easy target during the attack. Again, counters exist.
Assuming you even know it’s there in the first place, which you likely will not because your radar is unable to detect them, plus there is no guarantee you’ll even hit them as they’re popping flares on the way down.
You choosing not to counter something is a personal problem.
Having to play SPAA 24/7 is bad design.
Yea, so why did you mention fighters as “expensive”?
Because the cost/value as I said.
You came to a game with combined arms game modes and refuse to play in a combined arms style.
Permanently playing SPAA is not a viable way to play the game, there is no balance, you’re playing rock paper scissors with tanks, aircraft and SPAA but aircraft get to use 2 hands to play.
An equivalent 12.7 (or lower TBH) aircraft using SARH doesn’t care about flares or chaff. The radar will 100 percent be able to detect them on open sky, and the missiles will have an easy time hitting a target that won’t manuver to save the attack run.
Choosing to never play SPAA is a bad decision.
Other aircraft are the best way to counter aircraft most of the time.
You don’t have to permanently play SPAA. I use SPAA as a second spawn and if I die in it then I get to spawn with an MBT (or equivilent for BR) while the enemy team has used their stronger vehicles. Also, killing helis and planes can give pretty amazing amounts of SP if you aren’t trash at it.
The radar will 100 percent be able to detect them on open sky, and the missiles will have an easy time hitting a target that won’t manuver to save the attack run.
Radars have a elevation of 18 degrees for the most part, and some SPAA don’t even have radars.
Choosing to never play SPAA is a bad decision.
I play SPAA more often and more successfully than the majority of people, not the point.
Other aircraft are the best way to counter aircraft most of the time.
Aircraft are not a guaranteed spawn, having to play anything but tanks in order to be able to play the game at all is not good game design, either I sit in SPAA or I fly a fighter but never is the answer to play a tank… combined arms argument shouldn’t just be about justifying the existence of CAS when it invalidates the existence of ground vehicles.
I use SPAA as a second spawn and if I die in it then I get to spawn with an MBT (or equivilent for BR) while the enemy team has used their stronger vehicles.
Yeah, you spawn an MBT first to be killed by CAS, then you spawn SPAA and you probably get killed by CAS again and then you can spawn another MBT to get killed by CAS.
There isn’t a window where CAS exists and it doesn’t CAS exists from beginning to end, which means you need to be in an SPAA from beginning to end to counter it.
I’m talking about planes, not SPAA. Mentioned right before the part you quoted.
So CAS is to easy to spawn, but now Aircraft aren’t a guaranteed spawn. “Not good game design” for a tank only game, which Warthunder is not. The game is combined arms and if you approch it like it isn’t then you will struggle. Yes, tanks aren’t usually designed for anti aircraft duties, that would be SPAA. You can play tanks all day if you want, noone said you can’t. You’ll get killed by aircraft sometimes, but dying happens in a combat game. Choosing not to embrace the entirety of the game available to you is a personal issue, not one of game design. If you (or any player) came to Warthunder thinking it was tank only then you were mistaken and that isn’t the game’s fault.
No, usually I die to another ground vehicle first. When I spawn an SPAA it is usually before enemy aircraft are up, and I usually don’t die to SPAA in the BRs that I play them. I apply appropriate tactics to maximize my chances of survival and successful engagement of targets. If I do die in my SPAA to aircraft or ground units and aircraft are still up I spawn SPAA again to help the team.
Krilling myself rn