Is it feasible to adjust the BR float to ± 0.7？

[_Baum]

@Shadow_CZ

The shortening of the BR range is precisely the biggest issue here. With 0.7 you can adjust BR just by half of the spread which can be problematic because that is very big step and moving vehicles up and down will create many more issue then with ±1.0 system.

Ok I still don`t understand.
Right now the Maus is impossible to balance (Gajin said so)
It should according to gajin not face any current 6.7 Tanks but it should also not face anything with APDSFS which starts at 8.7. In a 0.7 System the 7.7 BR of the mouse would satisfy both of Gajins demands making balancing more percise and easier as there are less variables from the 6.7 tanks and 8.7 tanks to consider when balancing a 7.7 tank.
Another example. The Leo 1 is 7.3 because it lacks the ability to consistently fight against stabilised MBT´s with access to APDSFS at 8.7 and its mobility is nolonger a strenght at that BR as most tanks are far more mobile. It should however also not meet 6.3 or even 6.7 tanks. As fighting unstabilised tanks is more acceptable to gajin than the other way around it was moved down to 7.3
In a 0.7 system it could go to 7.7 and would not face any 6.7 tanks and also not the 8.7 fully stabilised APDSFS slingers.

Hence why I argue that 0.7 makes balance easier and more percise. You have essentially removed the need to consider 2 whole BR`s from a calculation and in most cases it is a case of Too weak to go up but to strong to go down which hampers tanks. So by removing one BR up and down from a possible match you also remove this scenario.
Ofc you could then face the same issue againwith a tank being to strong for two down but to weak for two up. In this case further hard Decompression by extending BR´s would be needed.

The 0.7 System is there to avoid the need to move around 300+ tanks like right now at once for just 0.3BR. Only 0.7 BR tanks would need to go up in a 0.7 system for the same result of decompression but avoiding the compression we now face at 8.0 and 9.0 and also it would keep more tanks at similar BR´s to keep lineups a possibility. Sth which a hard BR decompression would not allow. If done to the end most Lineups would consist of 1 vehicle and two vehicles in a single lineup would be rare.

@Shadow_CZ

My table is from MM/lineup point of view exactly the same as the 0.7 spread. So if you are telling me that my table breaks lineups same applies to the 0.7 spread.

A lineup is 3 (sometimes 2)or more vehicles of the same BR. Having tanks of different BR´s is not a lineup as you are wasting potential of one or all other vehicles in a lineup.
As 0.7 avoids to much moving around more vehicles will stay at the same BR. A hard BR decompression can not achive that by its very nature of having to change the BR of vehicles to facilitate change.

@Shadow_CZ

All in all it is pointless to argue for 0.7 as it will never happen because even without Gaijin’s “reasons” for wanting compressed game it is simply bad UI design so it will never happen

Bad UI design is not a reason to not do sth. UI can be changed.
If Bad Ui would be reason to not do sth then why do we have the BP while not having a working challenge and mission tracker in the game?

@Shadow_CZ

But the numbers are irrelevant. As you said the vehicle will see only 2 steps up and down instead of 3. This means that it is far more likely that some vehicle will be too weak at one step and far too powerful the step below. Because with the 0.7 system you will loose one step which could otherwise be used for more detailed balancing.

The very same thing is what we now call compression and is rampant. And most of those issues are fixed by the 0.7 system and as stated above much less likely to occure.

@Shadow_CZ

The performance gap between vehicles which are 1.0 BRs from one another is completely arbitrary. And isn’t relevant at all because it is 100% in Gaijin’s hands we can have exactly same compression with the 0.7 as we have now but it would be even worse because you have one less balancing step to make adjustments.

No you would still have the same number of steps. Why does an entire BR just vanish in your opinion? A 7.0 tank can still go 7.3, 7.7 or 8.0. Not a single step would be missing. I fail to understand where your misisng step argument comes from. A 0.3 increase in BR is right now a bigger stepp than it would be in 0.7 system. Making the current system again less accurate.
If my tank goes from 7.0 to 7.3 it will now face APDSFS while also facing WWII vehicles. in a 0.7 world it would at 7.3 face only the lates WWII tanks and no APDSFS.
Removing variables makes balance easier and more percise. It is harder to balance 400weights of which 80% have different weights to all others then it is to balance 300 weights of which 50% chare a similar or identical weight.

[七-十三]

Wrong, 1.0 performance gap is real, arbitrary in what BR range? 1.0 to 3.0 ground? i believe that, but not in other BR range, ±0.7 float remove the first -0.3 and the last +0.3 variable that either shank or pad the vehicle stat, removing the gaijin compression issue that is caused by ±1.0 float-related performance.

[AlvisWisla]

1.0 to 2.0 is perfectly balanced currently.

[Shadow_CZ]

@_Baum

A lineup is 3 (sometimes 2)or more vehicles of the same BR. Having tanks of different BR´s is not a lineup as you are wasting potential of one or all other vehicles in a lineup.
As 0.7 avoids to much moving around more vehicles will stay at the same BR. A hard BR decompression can not achive that by its very nature of having to change the BR of vehicles to facilitate change.

If vehicles are of the same BR they will retain the same BR even with the decompression. Simply BR of all the vehicles will change. So the lineups wont change as long as there is no vehicle which would be blatandly OP or unbalanced.

@_Baum

No you would still have the same number of steps. Why does an entire BR just vanish in your opinion? A 7.0 tank can still go 7.3, 7.7 or 8.0. Not a single step would be missing. I fail to understand where your misisng step argument comes from. A 0.3 increase in BR is right now a bigger stepp than it would be in 0.7 system. Making the current system again less accurate.
If my tank goes from 7.0 to 7.3 it will now face APDSFS while also facing WWII vehicles. in a 0.7 world it would at 7.3 face only the lates WWII tanks and no APDSFS.
Removing variables makes balance easier and more percise. It is harder to balance 400weights of which 80% have different weights to all others then it is to balance 300 weights of which 50% chare a similar or identical weight.

and everything else and @七-十三_H14

You are fundamentaly misunderstanding my point and how BRs/MM work in game in general.

You are acting as if the power levels are somehow directly tied to that one specific BR but that isn´t the case. The BR is inherently relative metric which is based on the relative power of each vehicles compared to other vehicles.
We (or more precisely Gaijin) can decide what is the power level step between vehicles that should no longer face each other. They can then asign it number which can be ±0.3 or ±0.7 or 1.0 or even ±1.3 and nothing will change. Because this spread is just arbitrary decided number to represents the the biggest allowed power level difference.

What matters then is the precision of that system becase there will 100% be vehicles which power level will fall in between the grid of BR spreads.
There are different levels of precision you can have 1 step precision (that is ±0.3) which would have no in-between steps that is worst kind of system, then you can have 2 step precision (that is ±0.7 or WOT/WOWS system) which allows you to place vehicles in between the grid. Then you can have 3 step precision system which what we have now where you can place vehicles into thirds in between the grid so you can make more detailed adjustments. And of corse you can scale this forther.

I will give you 2 exampes how the 3 step precision system is better then the 2 step system.

1. Lets imagine that you have thermostadt in your home and the designers decided the the “grid” in this case minimum teperature step is for example 10°C with 2 step precision you could only adjust the temperature by 5°C in the 3 step precision system you could adjust the temperature by 3.3°C
2. Lets now imagine that Gaijin decided to switch from current 3 step precision system to 2 step precision system but decided to retain the maximum power level step. This in simplified way would mean that they would group both .3 and .7 into one BR bracket which could be .5

As you can now hopefully see the 3 step precision system is inherently better because it provides more balancing options. But is in no way tied to the maximum allowed power level difference.

---

We can arguer about what the biggest alowable power step should be but that shouldn´t in any way affect the precision of the balancing system. For example the notion that the power level difference between the M4A1 and M4A2 is the same as is power level difference between the M4A2 and M4A1(76)W and that is the same as the difference between the M4A1(76)W and M4A2(76)W just isn´t true. This is something which both current compressed state and the ±0.7 suggest. With the ±0.7 you will have no way how to fix this discrepancy because if were to move up/down any of these shermans you will end up in situation where you would have two differnt vehicles (from these and the shermans in between) at the same but one being clearly superior even though just slightly.

---

As for Maus the issue is more complex and even with the ±0.7 it would still be present even if less severly. The issue with Maus is that by nature of the tank shell development you have basically 2 scenarios either you have no way of penning the Maus or you can pen Maus easily. (in most cases)
The issue is that Maus has very small weakspots if any making it almoast impenetrable for many tanks from the front even at the BR 7.0 or 7.3 but then there are vehicles which simply can ignore its armor and these are already present on 7.7 or 8.0. And because its size and spead Maus have little to no way how to counter these.

This issue will still be present with ±0.7 or any other decompression attempt.

[AlvisWisla]

You know, I appreciate you typing up longer points, cause it helps illustrate important critiques.

[_Baum]

@AlvisWisla

1.0 to 2.0 is perfectly balanced currently.

I disagree and many more do. This is not a fact or anything that is at best a minority opinion.

@Shadow_CZ

If vehicles are of the same BR they will retain the same BR even with the decompression. Simply BR of all the vehicles will change. So the lineups wont change as long as there is no vehicle which would be blatandly OP or unbalanced.

The current BR changes disproove that.

@Shadow_CZ

You are fundamentaly misunderstanding my point and how BRs/MM work in game in general.

I don`t think I misunderstand the current system at all. It is exceedingly simple after all.

@Shadow_CZ

You are acting as if the power levels are somehow directly tied to that one specific BR but that isn´t the case. The BR is inherently relative metric which is based on the relative power of each vehicles compared to other vehicles.
We (or more precisely Gaijin) can decide what is the power level step between vehicles that should no longer face each other. They can then asign it number which can be ±0.3 or ±0.7 or 1.0 or even ±1.3 and nothing will change. Because this spread is just arbitrary decided number to represents the the biggest allowed power level difference.

Yes true. And as this is true your steps are also just imaginary and therefore irrelevant.

@Shadow_CZ

What matters then is the precision of that system becase there will 100% be vehicles which power level will fall in between the grid of BR spreads.
There are different levels of precision you can have 1 step precision (that is ±0.3) which would have no in-between steps that is worst kind of system, then you can have 2 step precision (that is ±0.7 or WOT/WOWS system) which allows you to place vehicles in between the grid. Then you can have 3 step precision system which what we have now where you can place vehicles into thirds in between the grid so you can make more detailed adjustments. And of corse you can scale this forther.

Irrelevant for the discussion. You are talking about overall full picture balance of the entire BR range. We are only talking about the balancve of each individual match.

Can you give me an example of a Scenario in which a vehicle, please use an existing specific vehicle, can only be balanced by a +/-3 MM and not in a +/-2 MM.

@Shadow_CZ

Lets imagine that you have thermostadt in your home and the designers decided the the “grid” in this case minimum teperature step is for example 10°C with 2 step precision you could only adjust the temperature by 5°C in the 3 step precision system you could adjust the temperature by 3.3°C

This is wrong. No matter if we have a 1.0 0.7 or 0.3 MM the scale would still be measured in 0.3 intervals and still be adjusted in such intervalls. A shitf to a 0.7 MM would not remove gajins ability to change the BR of a vehicle by 0.3

@Shadow_CZ

Lets now imagine that Gaijin decided to switch from current 3 step precision system to 2 step precision system but decided to retain the maximum power level step. This in simplified way would mean that they would group both .3 and .7 into one BR bracket which could be .5

Why would I imagine that? That is pure fantasy and has nothing to do with changing the number of + and - BR`s a vehicle can face in any given match from +/-3 to +/-2

@Shadow_CZ

As you can now hopefully see the 3 step precision system is inherently better because it provides more balancing options. But is in no way tied to the maximum allowed power level difference.

Both examples have nothing to do with what the 0.7 MM spread is about. Both examples assume that gajin would somehow lose their ability to move vehicles up or down by 0.3 BR

To further illustarte the changes to the BRs in a TechTree I have made one for 1.0 MM and one for 0.7MM
This techtree comparrison shows the change in BRs needed to implement a 0.7MM spread to the game (note further monitoring is still required)

1.0

Spoiler

0.7

Spoiler

Note that it is a fairly old TT but it really does not matter

I will once again repeat what the 0.7 BR MM spread is doing and also what it is not doing.

1. 0.7 reduces the Number of different BRs a vehicle can meet from +/-3 to +/-2

Meaning a 7.0 vehicle will only ever meet 7.7 and 6.3 vehicles in a 0.7 system (In the 1.0 system it could meet 6.0 and 8.0 vehicles)

Thats it. that is all the 0.7 system fundamentally does.

Now what it absolutely certainly in no way shape or form will,can or should do.

1. Remove BRs from the game

0.3 increments will stay 100% unchanged, changing this would make implementation of the 0.7 system unpredictable and impossible 0.7 can only work as long as the 3 step system (x.3; x.7 and x.0 Steps) remains unchanged.

2. Lower every vehicles BR so they all can still meet the same as prior to the change

This once again would utterly defeat the point of introducing a 0.7 system

[WarField_15]

That would be wonderful, it doesn’t make sense to have a margin of BR+ 1.0 BR- 1.0 in the serching game, that’s absurd. In the RB airplane the problem is not very visible until the arrival of the 7.7 BR, but with the tanks, facing an opponent 1.0 BR+ that yours is a problem since Tier 1. Discrepancy in armament and armor in the tanks in the low BR for up BR makes the game very unbalanced.

[Ion_Protogen]

I’d say no. 0.7 MM is more confusing, and allows for less fine tuning in Battle Ratings; the only benefit it has, is that it is much easier than severe decompression.

For example, in a current 1.0 BR gap there is a large difference in technology, and in a 0.7 BR spread, it is a smaller jump in technology. If we were to take a current 0.7 BR spread, and expand that into a 1.0 BR spread, it would be more balanced, because it achieves the same decompression as 0.7 MM, but allows for more fine tuning in the BR of a vehicle.

[CoffeeBean100]

@WarField_15

Discrepancy in armament and armor in the tanks in the low BR for up BR makes the game very unbalanced.

Yet to see that in game.

[Shadow_CZ]

Either you are deliberately lying and intentionally ignore what I am saying or you really have problems with reading comprehention.

What Gaijin is now doing isn´t decompression but just slight BR adjustments around where late-war and cold war vehicles meet. You are arguing for sweeping type of change which will affect every BR in the game and will require rebalancing (or at very least check) of all BRs in game. And then when I try to point the issues with the approach you are proposing you suddenly change to completly irrelevant topic to discuss.

You fail to meaningfully respond to any of my complaigns/issues/ideas.

I will laid down the facts and main poitns and then ask you for what you don´t understand or what do you me by your “responses”.

Facts:

1. I proven that everything what can be done with the ±0.7 can be done with retaining the ±1.0 and just expanding the BR range.

Table prooving my statement

2. I showed why having more incremental MM steps between the MM grid is better. See these very basic examples:

Lets imagine that you have thermostadt in your home and the designers decided the the “grid” in this case minimum teperature step is for example 10°C with 2 step precision you could only adjust the temperature by 5°C in the 3 step precision system you could adjust the temperature by 3.3°C

Lets now imagine that Gaijin decided to switch from current 3 step precision system to 2 step precision system but decided to retain the maximum power level step. This in simplified way would mean that they would group both .3 and .7 into one BR bracket which could be .5

3. You have failed to suggest any longterm advantage of the ±0.7 system

There is no way you can´t understand these points

---

Now please let me to ask you and give you more detailed response to your post:

@_Baum

Yes true. And as this is true your steps are also just imaginary and therefore irrelevant.

How are my steps imaginary they are integral in both ±0.7 and the ±1.0 these power steps are there and that is a fact the ±0.7 has two (middle and max) and the ±1.0 has three (1 third, 2 thirds and max) now tell how the ±1.0 can be in your eyes worse then the ±0.7 when the max power step would be the same.

@_Baum

Irrelevant for the discussion. You are talking about overall full picture balance of the entire BR range. We are only talking about the balancve of each individual match.

We ARE talking about the FULL PICTURE! FFS! You are proposing sweeping MM change across the board and you don´t want to talk about the whole picture?!

I can agree that current maximum power difference is too much but that doesn´t mean that ±0.7 is good fix for that. There will always be vehicles which don´t quite fit onto the MM grid and with ±0.7 you are unnecesarly limiting your balancing options to just the +/-2 brackest when you can still retaign +/-3 with no issues.

@_Baum

Can you give me an example of a Scenario in which a vehicle, please use an existing specific vehicle, can only be balanced by a +/-3 MM and not in a +/-2 MM.

Relative power discrepency between the 76 shermans or Panthers. For example.

@_Baum

This is wrong. No matter if we have a 1.0 0.7 or 0.3 MM the scale would still be measured in 0.3 intervals and still be adjusted in such intervalls. A shitf to a 0.7 MM would not remove gajins ability to change the BR of a vehicle by 0.3

Both examples have nothing to do with what the 0.7 MM spread is about. Both examples assume that gajin would somehow lose their ability to move vehicles up or down by 0.3 BR

But again you are missunderstanding the whole point. BR grid isn´t MM grid. I am talking about the MM grid. There will always be vehicles which don´t quite fit onto the MM grid and with ±0.7 you are unnecesarly limiting your balancing options to just the +/-2 brackest when you can still retaign +/-3 with no issues.

The BRs are just way to easily visualize the MM grid.

You are failing to understand my fundamental point.

[Allyedge]

0.7 is a bad idea, I personally believe decompressing ground BRs to around 13.0 and air BRs to around 14.0, or maybe 15.0 would be more than enough and would give Gaijin a lot of wiggle room when it comes to adding new vehicles instead of working with compressed BRs.

But I think we all know that the reason that won’t happen is because the players suffer from it not Gaijin. :)

[_Baum]

@Ion_Protogen

I’d say no. 0.7 MM is more confusing, and allows for less fine tuning in Battle Ratings; the only benefit it has, is that it is much easier than severe decompression.

Always the sam argment yet 0 proof for it whatsoever. Give me an ingame example and we can talk.

@Ion_Protogen

For example, in a current 1.0 BR gap there is a large difference in technology, and in a 0.7 BR spread, it is a smaller jump in technology. If we were to take a current 0.7 BR spread, and expand that into a 1.0 BR spread, it would be more balanced, because it achieves the same decompression as 0.7 MM, but allows for more fine tuning in the BR of a vehicle.

The smaler jump makes balance easier. There is no more fine tuning as the general scale rfemains unchanged.

@Shadow_CZ

Either you are deliberately lying and intentionally ignore what I am saying or you really have problems with reading comprehention.

Right back at you

@Shadow_CZ

What Gaijin is now doing isn´t decompression but just slight BR adjustments around where late-war and cold war vehicles meet. You are arguing for sweeping type of change which will affect every BR in the game and will require rebalancing (or at very least check) of all BRs in game. And then when I try to point the issues with the approach you are proposing you suddenly change to completly irrelevant topic to discuss.

IT IS LITERALLY CALLED BR DECOMPRESSION EVEN BY GAJIN AND EVERYONE ELSE

My change will afect absolutely 0 vehicles BR as I have shown many many times. Stop making shit up. Every single argument you have made is “But if we do this then gajin might do that and it will nolonger work”. You have not a single time shown that what is currently in the game will stop it from working. YOu always add other chnages to the mix and say “SEEEEEE”

I will repeat myself again!

@_Baum

I will once again repeat what the 0.7 BR MM spread is doing and also what it is not doing.

1. 0.7 reduces the Number of different BRs a vehicle can meet from +/-3 to +/-2

Meaning a 7.0 vehicle will only ever meet 7.7 and 6.3 vehicles in a 0.7 system (In the 1.0 system it could meet 6.0 and 8.0 vehicles)

Thats it. that is all the 0.7 system fundamentally does.

Again nothing else will be changed.

@Shadow_CZ

I proven that everything what can be done with the ±0.7 can be done with retaining the ±1.0 and just expanding the BR range.

No again you have not proven that.
Where does your Change not destroy every lineup in the game? The main reason why I propose the 0.7 system. You have deliberatly ignored that very point since I brought it up

@Shadow_CZ

Table prooving my statement

Once again this show how every lineup in the game would be lost. Because every vehicle would need to move around.

@Shadow_CZ

I showed why having more incremental MM steps between the MM grid is better. See these very basic examples:

BOTH OF YOUR EXAMPLES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHANGE.
I have shown that.
Give me an ingame example Like I have done. You thermostat has no relation and is utter garbadgde.

@Shadow_CZ

You have failed to suggest any longterm advantage of the ±0.7 system

Literally a lie. A complete and utter lie.

Multiple times have I listed multiple longterm advantages.

One is that balance is easier because the capabilities of vehicles is much closer to each other and there are less variables to take note of for rebalancing each time.
It reduces the amount of possible compression for that very reason. Because it is much harder for a vehicle to be stuck in a position of “to strong to go down but to weak to stay where it is”
Another is that it keeps the Techtree full. Even if A lineup needs to be moved apart the tanks can remain visually closer together. In your system minor nations would have entire BR ranges without a single vehicle like sweden right now has only one 6.3 and nothing else between 5.7 and 7.7 after the change this will extend to 8.0 in your table it will be from 7.7 to 11.0 without a single vehicle.
That is the big weakness of your proposed change. It 100% destroys lineups (the very concept of it) and the Tech Tree

@Shadow_CZ

How are my steps imaginary they are integral in both ±0.7 and the ±1.0 these power steps are there and that is a fact the ±0.7 has two (middle and max) and the ±1.0 has three (1 third, 2 thirds and max) now tell how the ±1.0 can be in your eyes worse then the ±0.7 when the max power step would be the same.

Explain to me where is a balance step missing in the 0.7 system.
Every single BR remains unchanged ALL that changes is what can meet what. Every vehicle can still be moved in the exact same increments as before. Is that so hard to undertsand thatv i have to repeat it over an dover and over again?

@Shadow_CZ

We ARE talking about the FULL PICTURE! FFS! You are proposing sweeping MM change across the board and you don´t want to talk about the whole picture?!

That is not what I said and meant. The 0.7 MM is about the MM and the balance of every single MM generated match.
You where talking about the TT without any relation to the MM. Hence why there is a difference.

@Shadow_CZ

I can agree that current maximum power difference is too much but that doesn´t mean that ±0.7 is good fix for that. There will always be vehicles which don´t quite fit onto the MM grid and with ±0.7 you are unnecesarly limiting your balancing options to just the +/-2 brackest when you can still retaign +/-3 with no issues.

Again the senselees “limiting balance options” argument
Where is it limited.

@Shadow_CZ

Relative power discrepency between the 76 shermans or Panthers. For example.

That is not an example the way I wanted it.
I want you to give me one specific vehicle currently in the game which you would rebalance to put it in a better place and I want you to show me how this could only be done in a 1.0 MM and not in a 0.7MM.
Again do so using one specific vehicle currently in the game and be as percise as possible and needed.

Tell me What would you do:
If the Tiger II H after a change over-performed against 5.7, over-performs against 6.0s, performs decently against 6.3s, performs adequatly against 6.7, can fight 7.0s, is at a light disadvantage against 7.3 and a great disadvantage against 7.7s
in a 1.0 system
and
in a 0.7 system.

@Shadow_CZ

But again you are missunderstanding the whole point. BR grid isn´t MM grid. I am talking about the MM grid. There will always be vehicles which don´t quite fit onto the MM grid and with ±0.7 you are unnecesarly limiting your balancing options to just the +/-2 brackest when you can still retaign +/-3 with no issues.

The+/-2 system allows for more percise focus on this issie as an increase in BR or decrease in BR is less impactfull for the vehicle directly afected but removes an offending vehicle faster from the problematic BR range. Right now to remove the Leo 1 from its problematic BR range we needed to put it at 8.0 where it does not belong as it stands 0 chance against even 8.7 let alone 9.0 tanks.
In a 0.7 system the same positive effect would be achived by moving it to 7.7 where it would also max face 8.3 vehicles.

THAT is an ingame example

@Shadow_CZ

The BRs are just way to easily visualize the MM grid.

Change how you display them. What do I care if 1.0 becomes 1; 1.3 becomes 2; 1.7 becomes 3 and 2.0 becomes 4. The underlying system and power spread remains unchanged.

@Shadow_CZ

You are failing to understand my fundamental point.

Right back

Right now the Blanace steps we have are 1.0 to 11.7 in ground RB
in a 0.7 world we have 1.0 to 11.7. Where is the misisng step.

You seem to consider each vehicle another can meet to be a step. Which is utterly wrong. a balance step in this game is measured in 0.3 and whenever you move a vehicle up or down it will lose 0.3 in one direction and gain 0.3 in the other. This again remains unchanged in a 0.7MM world.
I can not suddenly not put a vehicle from 7.0 at 7.3 just because I now use 0.7MM (this is what your thermostat example is about! And this is again why it is utterly wrong).

[Hartsy1]

I think they should implement it over a weekend just to see what the actual player feedback is and what problems it causes.

[PigtailedSlime]

I’d take a “bad bandaid” if it means the game is playable while a real fix is worked on.

[PigtailedSlime]

The leo 1 facing the m60 aos is kinda whacky in my opinion

[Shadow_CZ]

@_Baum

IT IS LITERALLY CALLED BR DECOMPRESSION EVEN BY GAJIN AND EVERYONE ELSE

My change will afect absolutely 0 vehicles BR as I have shown many many times. Stop making shit up. Every single argument you have made is “But if we do this then gajin might do that and it will nolonger work”. You have not a single time shown that what is currently in the game will stop it from working. YOu always add other chnages to the mix and say “SEEEEEE”

I will repeat myself again!

Does the top BR change with current change? No? > It isn´t decompression It is simple as that calling it decompression if a lie.

It might not change the numbers but it will severly influence the MM for everything. You are failing to see that. BR is just number, the important thing is what the number represents and what is its tole in the MM, the ±0.7 fundamentaly changes this relation and you are failing to see that.

@_Baum

Again nothing else will be changed.

Everything will change - for example basically same tanks M4A1 (76) W and M4A3 (76) W will now be unable to meet. That is just one example.

@_Baum

No again you have not proven that.
Where does your Change not destroy every lineup in the game? The main reason why I propose the 0.7 system. You have deliberatly ignored that very point since I brought it up
Once again this show how every lineup in the game would be lost. Because every vehicle would need to move around.

Just look at the table . Lets now check several lineups:

3.3

• In you system the 3.3 vehicles stay at 3.3 and can see vehicles from 2.7 to 4.0
• In my system all the 3.3 vehicles move to 4.3 (lineups don´t change) and can see 3.3 (not occupied) so the lowest BR is 3.7 (old 2.7) and highest is 5.3 (old 4.0)

Same as your example

5.0

• In you system the 5.0 vehicles stay at 5.0 and can see vehicles from 4.3 to 5.7
• In my system all the 5.0 vehicles move to 6.7 (lineups don´t change) and can see 5.7 (not occupied) so the lowest BR is 6.0 (old 4.3) and highest is 7.7 (old 5.7)

Same as your example

7.7

• In you system the 7.7 vehicles stay at 7.7 and can see vehicles from 7.0 to 8.3
• In my system all the 7.7 vehicles move to 10.7 (lineups don´t change) and can see 9.7 (old 7.0) and highest is 11.7 (old 8.3)

Same as your example

So tell me what point did I ignore or how the lineups will break. I am waiting.

@_Baum

BOTH OF YOUR EXAMPLES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHANGE.
I have shown that.
Give me an ingame example Like I have done. You thermostat has no relation and is utter garbadgde.

I gave you one (two actually) the 76 Shermans and the Panthers and you conviniently ignored them both…

And again you are failing to understand:

@Shadow_CZ

that is a fact the ±0.7 has two (middle and max) and the ±1.0 has three (1 third, 2 thirds and max) now tell how the ±1.0 can be in your eyes worse then the ±0.7 when the max power step would be the same.

@_Baum

One is that balance is easier because the capabilities of vehicles is much closer to each other and there are less variables to take note of for rebalancing each time.

That is completly irrelevant and isn´t an advantage of the ±0.7 system since the capabilities of each vehicle is same relative distance regardless of the spread you use. Again please revisit what I wrote and demonstrated above with the table.

@_Baum

It reduces the amount of possible compression for that very reason. Because it is much harder for a vehicle to be stuck in a position of “to strong to go down but to weak to stay where it is”

It actually does the oposit because you have less MM steps to balance the vehicle. Again as explained above. With the steps.

@_Baum

Another is that it keeps the Techtree full. Even if A lineup needs to be moved apart the tanks can remain visually closer together. In your system minor nations would have entire BR ranges without a single vehicle like sweden right now has only one 6.3 and nothing else between 5.7 and 7.7 after the change this will extend to 8.0 in your table it will be from 7.7 to 11.0 without a single vehicle.

BRs doesn´t make TT visually full or empty. It has zero impact on the visual side of the TT. From the MM point of view the sane hole exists regardless of the BR system used. Because the MM in both systems ±0.7 or decompressed ±1.0 is exactly the same.

@_Baum

That is the big weakness of your proposed change. It 100% destroys lineups (the very concept of it) and the Tech Tree

You are confusing ranks and BRs. BRs are just numbers to visualize the MM grid they can be emty or full and that is fine because the only impact os on MM.

As I demonstrated numerous times no lineup will cange compared to your ±0.7.

@_Baum

Explain to me where is a balance step missing in the 0.7 system.
Every single BR remains unchanged ALL that changes is what can meet what. Every vehicle can still be moved in the exact same increments as before. Is that so hard to undertsand thatv i have to repeat it over an dover and over again?

You are thinking about BRs as something static and visual. Again the BR is just number which represents MM grid. The ±0.7 MM has fewer balancing steps then the ±1.0

@Shadow_CZ

that is a fact the ±0.7 has two (middle and max) and the ±1.0 has three (1 third, 2 thirds and max) now tell how the ±1.0 can be in your eyes worse then the ±0.7 when the max power step would be the same.

The relative vehicle performance at the maximum MM step can be the same in both systems. I will borrow your Tiger II H example.

• In your system will only meet meet 7.3 and 6.0 vehicles. So the highest BR tank it can meet is T32 instead of T32E1
• In my system Tiger II H is 9.3 so it will only meet vehicles between 10.3 and 8.3. So again the highest BR tank it can meet is T32 instead of T32E1.

In my system we can do more though:
If we think that it is too weak at this BR we can move it down to 9.0 (unocupied) so now it can face only 8.0 - 10.0 the current 5.7 tanks are at 8.7 so they aren´t affected. Than we can move the strongest and most OP tanks at the 10.0 (old 7.3) vehicles to 10.3 which won´t change their highest BR vehicle which they can see because the 11.3 isn´t ocupied.

This is something which isn´t possible in your system because any of the adjustment you make will have domino effect to other vehicles. Because you dont have these “emty” BRs

@_Baum

That is not what I said and meant. The 0.7 MM is about the MM and the balance of every single MM generated match.
You where talking about the TT without any relation to the MM. Hence why there is a difference.

I am talking about the MM and balance as a whole you are always cherry picking specific MM instances without any though what domino affect the changes can have. You are alway bringing up TT as if they are at all relevant. Please show me example where I talked about TT instead of BR and MM.

@_Baum

Again the senselees “limiting balance options” argument
Where is it limited.

That is not an example the way I wanted it.
I want you to give me one specific vehicle currently in the game which you would rebalance to put it in a better place and I want you to show me how this could only be done in a 1.0 MM and not in a 0.7MM.
Again do so using one specific vehicle currently in the game and be as percise as possible and needed.

Tell me What would you do:
If the Tiger II H after a change over-performed against 5.7, over-performs against 6.0s, performs decently against 6.3s, performs adequatly against 6.7, can fight 7.0s, is at a light disadvantage against 7.3 and a great disadvantage against 7.7s
in a 1.0 system
and
in a 0.7 system.

Are you happy? This is prcisely the example you wonted and suggested:

• In your system will only meet meet 7.3 and 6.0 vehicles. So the highest BR tank it can meet is T32 instead of T32E1
• In my system Tiger II H is 9.3 so it will only meet vehicles between 10.3 and 8.3. So again the highest BR tank it can meet is T32 instead of T32E1.

In my system we can do more though:
If we think that it is too weak at this BR we can move it down to 9.0 (unocupied) so now it can face only 8.0 - 10.0 the current 5.7 tanks are at 8.7 so they aren´t affected. Than we can move the strongest and most OP tanks at the 10.0 (old 7.3) vehicles to 10.3 which won´t change their highest BR vehicle which they can see because the 11.3 isn´t ocupied.

This is something which isn´t possible in your system because any of the adjustment you make will have domino effect to other vehicles. Because you dont have these “emty” BRs

Can you now see how the decompression and ±1.0 is supperior?

@_Baum

The+/-2 system allows for more percise focus on this issie as an increase in BR or decrease in BR is less impactfull for the vehicle directly afected but removes an offending vehicle faster from the problematic BR range. Right now to remove the Leo 1 from its problematic BR range we needed to put it at 8.0 where it does not belong as it stands 0 chance against even 8.7 let alone 9.0 tanks.
In a 0.7 system the same positive effect would be achived by moving it to 7.7 where it would also max face 8.3 vehicles.

No in the ±0.7 the impact of moving the vehicle by 0.3 is exactly the same as in current system because the MM grid stayed the same only the starting power difference is smaller.
If you were to move problematic vehicle in the ±0.7 system you can do so less precisely because you didn´t change the BR grid only the spread. So in the ±0.7 the one BR grid step (0.3) is half of the the MM spread.

As for the Leo in my decompressed system. I can do the exactly same thing and move it to 10.7 (old 7.7) or I can do more detailed adjustments so I move it just to 10.3 (unocupied) so it wont face 11.7 (8.3) and then move some weak 9.3 (old 6.7) down to 9.0 without affecting the the old 5.7s because they are at 7.7.

@_Baum

You seem to consider each vehicle another can meet to be a step. Which is utterly wrong. a balance step in this game is measured in 0.3 and whenever you move a vehicle up or down it will lose 0.3 in one direction and gain 0.3 in the other. This again remains unchanged in a 0.7MM world.
I can not suddenly not put a vehicle from 7.0 at 7.3 just because I now use 0.7MM (this is what your thermostat example is about! And this is again why it is utterly wrong).

But I can move it down whith essentialy no impact on the MM. That is why my decompression system is superior. As I demonstrated in the Leo and Tiger II H examples.

[Shadow_CZ]

Why waste time with bad bandait which will take same amount of time as good solution?

[七-十三]

You know you can implement .7 float with gradual decompression that add more BR range without complete overhaul of the whole tech tree that doesn’t confuses player. what matters is power difference, .7 float ensure that the vehicle will be adequately strong and adequately weak without at the same time getting assfucked in full uptier or became a monster in full downtier like the current 1.0 system like Maus, Henschel Tiger B, KV-1E, Char B2, Ju-288, Ta-152, MiG-21SMT, Sabres, R2Y, P-51H, and other downtier monster, but at the end of the day, for you, it isn’t about it, you just didn’t want to be proven wrong.

[Shadow_CZ]

The thing is that the 0.7 float insures nothing that is the biggest misconception about the 0.7. It can only theoretically work because current BRs are set up based on certain power difference which the 0.7 float will make smaller.
But that isn´t guaranteed. What would happen when Gaijin decides to use 0.7 and compresses it to current levels? Will you ask for 0.3 float?

I can agree with that the current power steps is too much but that doesn´t mean we can´t decide on smaller power step and asign the 1.0 float to it with other benefits.

[七-十三]

@Shadow_CZ

What would happen when Gaijin decides to use 0.7 and compresses it to current levels?

That’s your negativity, not me, i’m optimist that Gaijin will not compress it again so it became 1.0 float part 2, the changes they implemented and action they taken in these months has been satisfying and pro-consumer, i’m sure they’re going to the right direction with this game, the economy update itself is a commitment on Gaijin part considering the fact that they implemented these massive changes in step and evaluating player reaction and suggestion from each part of the update, ensuring that we keep our eye on them.