Increasing SPAA spawn cost based on the type of ammunition they bring

Suggestions Gameplay
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1
Should SPAA have a SP cost increase based on what ammunition they bring?
  • Yes.
  • No.
0 voters
If implemented, how much should the spawn cost of SPAA be increased to? (Using vehicle classes here as an example, in full down-tier scenario!) NOTE: I am unsure about the SP costs, correct me in the comments if you know for sure!
  • Heavy tank (160 SP)
  • Medium tank & light tank (150 SP)
  • Tank destroyer (130 SP)
  • I voted no on the first question.
0 voters
If this is added, should SPAA be able to bring as much ammo as they like of each type? (ie: no ammo limits for APDS, APFSDS and etc)
  • Yes.
  • No.
  • I voted no on the first question.
0 voters
If added, should the stock belts for all AA be made into HE ones?
  • Yes.
  • No.
  • Only on certain vehicles.
  • I voted no on the first question.
0 voters

Idea Consensus
In ground battles, I feel there has always been bit of a debate/concern of SPAA being utilized as tank destroyers, especially because of their low SP cost. It is something that is always inevitable, with how War Thunder gives players the ability to do whatever they want with their vehicles.

So, in light of some discussion in my thread about SPAA; I’ve decided to pitch this a suggestion. In essence, I propose the addition of a spawn cost increase when taking anti-tank belts in your SPAA. (Full AP belts: APT, APHE, APDS, APFSDS and etc)

With this in mind, I also think it could be fair to finally give SPAA the ability to bring as much of each ammo type as they want. There are certain vehicles like the OTOMATIC that could certainly benefit from such an ability.

The functionality utilized for this feature is already there, quite literally to the teeth with how aircraft have their SP cost increased when bringing different belt types more suited to kill ground targets.

But how much do I propose the SP increase be? I think it’d be fair to bump the cost of spawning the vehicle around to the light tank/tank destroyer SP cost. So around maybe a 30 spawn point increase, or maybe even 40 or 50.

Possible Concerns
A concern I can see however, is the difference between certain stock belts. This was brought up in my thread. Something like the SIDAM 25 can’t really compare to a Gepard, so I suggest the default belt for all SPAA be made into a purely HE based one. However, you are free to disagree.

Another concern I could see is low BR AA. But even then I feel this could be applicable as I can certainly recall a few games where a Bofors AA went into a spot and sat himself down with a full AP belt and got like 7 kills all for the AA spawn cost.

In turn, I could also see that certain AA like the ZSU-57 or forementioned bofors AA could become extremely difficult to grind – as many people feel that these sorts of AA are much better as TDs than traditional SPAA. So perhaps some consideration is needed in regards to what the default belt composition is for certain vehicles. Which is why I have added the “only on certain vehicles” option in the poll.

If you have additional concerns, please share them in the comments.

Conclusion
So, in conclusion, should Gaijin add a SP cost increase for taking anti-tank belts in SPAA, with the caveat of being able to bring as much ammo as possible now? I feel this could be a way to balance bringing a pure APDS belt load for example.

Either way, what do you think? I honestly think this would be a welcome change. It would give a reason to first spawn SPAA imo.

1 Like
2

This is a good idea. We already have this mechanic for aircraft ammo belts so it could work to help balance strong SPAAs that make great Tank Destroyers. Stuff like the Falcon

4 Likes
3

how about instead of penalizing you encourage them to play within their role with better rewards for focusing on aircraft(for example bonuses for shooting down aircraft before they can deploy their ordinance ) instead of just you know wanting to ruin the fragile balance that exists

9 Likes
5

No, i don’t think this is a good idea, the current balance is good enough, haven’t felt frustrated once when i got killed by spaa.
And this doesn’t take into account spaa that were designed with self-defense capability in mind like the gepard, which can physically only take 40 rounds, which means giving it a full apds belt would be ahistorical.

And for the people complaining you do realize that others, me included would use the Gepard (or others) with full apds belts everytime and then you’d get even more cancer right?

2 Likes
6

@foxmeup calling for the in-game death of SPAA players that take on aircraft with multipurpose ammo.

The people voting yes seemingly want SPAA to suffer the inability to defend themselves, and forcing SPAA to stay in spawn to make CAS runs easier at the middle of the map.

I can’t imagine anyone thinking that SPAA should be easier to frag in matches.

There are SPAA in War Thunder whose only usable rounds are APHE rounds and mixed belts to deal with both aircraft and tanks that attack their position due to not having proxy rounds.

This suggestion just reeks of trying to make CAS easier to play below BR 10.0 again.

4 Likes
7
Spoiler

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sauce: Report on how scores, SL, and RP rewards are calculated

Summary (all values are at 100% vehicle economy, no premium, no boosters, no skill bonus and against a vehicle at your BR or above.):

SL
Killing a tank in a tank/spaa is worth 1000 SL (plus change for crits and hits).
Killing a plane in a tank/spaa is worth 1500 SL (plus change for crits and hits.)
Killing a tank in a plane is worth 500 SL (you get it by now)
Killing a plane in a plane is worth 1500 SL

RP
Killing a tank in a tank/spaa is worth 47 RP
Killing a plane in a tank/spaa is worth 71 RP
Killing a tank in a plane is worth 24 RP
Killing a plane in a plane is worth 67 RP.

Score (bulk of RP reward comes from activity, which score influences)
Tank Kill on plane or tank: 200
Plane kill on plane or tank: 198.

Observation:
Aircraft kill rewards are already superior to ground vehicle kills for RP/SL. RP is not worth it for either tank or plane compared to activity% income, but it favours plane targets.
Score is same for both.

Personal hypothesis:
Severe damage mechanic causes players to misunderstand reward quantity for aircraft, alongside viability of significantly uptiering CAS causing BR correction and thus reduction in rewards.
People see rewards for “destruction” and only see 20% of the reward, not realizing 80% is found under “severe damage.” Even more confusion likely manifests for shared kills (one party gets 80%, the person finishing the kill gets 40%).

8

yes, we need better AA rewards.

4 Likes
9

What penalisation? If they are running an anti tank belt, it costs more to spawn. No different to ground belts on aircraft

10

spaa should be way harder to use against ground so that they focus the air…

yeah making spaa encouraged to target air vehicles and discouraged to target ground targets is definitely helping CaS…

2 Likes
11

This is something i can see being added to planes, where belts with anti-armor belts (AP, APHE, HVAP etc) cost more SP than high explosive anti-air belts. This would make CAP planes cost less SP than CAS planes, and thus be a better alternative for other SPAA.

I think the anti-tank belts for SPAA is balanced enough already. Vehicles that resemble the Gepard has the small magazines (the tiny belts on the outside of the turret) purely for emergency anti-armor. It doesn’t mean that you can’t load up the main magazine with APDS, but it would be ahistorical and the Gepard-likes would become wayy too OP. It would make them completely unbalanced, and they would be propelled into higher BRs to compensate, where they would be completely ineffective in their actual jobs as SPAA.

There are quite a few anti-air vehicles that have an artificially high BR just because they have good anti-armor shells with a high rate of fire, to the point where they would be better tank destroyers than actual anti-air platforms (Yes, i’m looking at you Bofors).

1 Like
12

They already are. Even the best radarless SPAA for ground targets is better against air than ground: ZSU-57-2.

The exclusive vehicle that this would negatively impact that’s better against ground than air is OTOMATIC.

This suggestion incentivizes SPAA stay in spawn and do nothing, or not spawn at all.
Without the ability to defend themselves, there’s no reason to be in the battlefield closer to the CAS.

2 Likes
13

Delusional take. I understand the Gepard and such are blatantly broken, but consider the poor ZSU-23-4 and ZSU-37-2 that cant pen anything unless its got no armour…

1 Like
14

you still can follow your teammates and support them. What i see most of the time is braindead players that rush flanks/spawns with spaa to get a maximum of kills and that leave when killed.

1 Like
15

You can’t support your team mates if you’re a sitting duck.

On top of that this suggestion is inherently pro-CAS cause this only benefits CAS, and hurts SPAA.
This suggestion does nothing else other than benefit CAS and hurt SPAA.

If this suggestion was ever added, I’d never run SPAA in my lineups again, and I’d run CAS constantly cause there’d be far less SPAA players. All the SPAA would stop getting spaded.

We see what happens when SPAA gets minor nerfs: Top BR SPAA.
This is beyond a minor nerf, this would be a major nerf.

Especially when CAS like IL-2, IL-10, etc require AP rounds to take down consistently.

16

because apds belts are used for cas, obviously!

so you still have mix belts for lower caliber spaas (20mm and less), and they work best beause of higher rof.

17

Mix belts means you have AP loaded which would guess what… increase spawn cost.
It’s a bad suggestion and only hurts SPAA and helps CAS in matches.

Every aircraft with compartmentalization and/or armor is instantly buffed with this suggestion.

IF the post is correct about their intentions, the suggestion itself is a contradiction to their alleged desired intentions.

1 Like
18

you need glasses…