That’s not what they’re saying. The best non ARH carriers will always need to face or be a higher BR than the worst ARH carriers. An Su-27 is better than the Viggen DI, and its BR needs to reflect that, because ARH missiles are not the only part of a plane.
They will always end up facing ARH missiles because of how the BR system works, but we need to limit what they see by decompressing the game.
Need i remind you that a majority of RWRs at 12.0-12.3 are on the equivalent of the ALR-45(V) found on the F-4S/J which cant even indicate any incoming arh, the Mirage Detecteur on the F1C only indicates CW illumination with a double directional rwr indicator frontally which only blinks if it detects CW illumination, which is also the same functionally as the RWR on the 12.0 Viggen
the JH-7A, F-18A, 20A etc are outliers with proper digital RWRs
That’s not what they’re saying. The best non ARH carriers will always need to face or be a higher BR than the worst ARH carriers. An Su-27 is better than the Viggen DI, and its BR needs to reflect that, because ARH missiles are not the only part of a plane.
They will always end up facing ARH missiles because of how the BR system works, but we need to limit what they see by decompressing the game.
So? 14.7 ceiling and them being 13.7 would make sense then if thats that person’s argument for things like the CSIP, 37Di, J-8F etc.
the only high G ARH slingers that have a justification at 13.3 in a world where we have 14.7 as the ceiling is the Harriers.
Gaijin also needs to move up Mig-23MLD, F-4FG1/J/S/FGR2, F-16A, Mirage 2000C tho by a lesser extent to half of the 13.0s.
0.3 BRs of decompression impacts 3+ BRs of vehicles.
That reaches 14.7 and almost everything from 8.0 - 14.0 is decompressed. 15.0 gets everything.
This.
The 13.0 Flankers, at least now, arent that awful to fly anymore, they fly alright, and the offensive kit on them and to a lesser extent, the Mirage 4000, would be fine to be at 13.3 with the Harriers in the case of a 14.7 BR cap, 15.0 br cap would be a different case for the high capacity SARH-IRCCM slingers
Another good case for this to point out is the entire mess that is 11.7-12.7 for arb which definitely needs to go up at least 1/3rds a step as a whole
also jets like this 100% have to go up in decompression. They are mirage 2Ks with the same FM as the fighter variants (actually better in some cases funny enough last I looked) and still have 2 magic 2s aka 2 free kills.
They are Mirage 2Ks with less missiles than their dedicated fighter variants. I have never once had an issue with them in an uptier. F-18s and Co are far far worse.
Magic IIs are only free kills if you dont know how to use flares.
Magic 2s are pretty much free kills regardless. I don’t care how good you think you are, if I get in my 2000DMV and just fly at you in a beeline then when we merge all I do is just hold my missile and wait to get on your rear, you aren’t going to flare it in your F-4E or J-7E from 1km away and if you try to dogfight I win there too.
and F-4S being 12.0 with Agile Eagle, better missile and HMD when compared to all the other Phantoms at 12.0 that dont have any is stupid>
Why did you let a mud mover onto your tail in teh first place? Let alone one with IRCCM. Its like the Mig-29 I killed in the GR4 a while ago. Just let me get onto his tail and get a clean shot for an Aim-9M. Doesnt mean the Tornado Gr4 is OP.
Its a Mirage 2K, the F-4E and J-7E are faster.
Also why you are fixating on 11.3s in this is really wierd. I was looking at Mirage 2K vs F-18C early or F-16 or Mig-29
So you’d have 1 vehicle per BR?
There just isnt the need for that amount at this time (at least when you confine looking at 12.0+)
it’s not up to you. I will simply (and easily) force myself upon you. We can test this in a custom if you like…
You haven’t thought about this at all and want to claim extreme claims like “there’d be only 1 vehicle per br” without even checking. How do we go from the current mess which sees MASSIVE power jumps even going up by 0.3br, expand that range by 2 BR ranges, then somehow now have 1 aircraft per BR? Get real.
Oh my bad, it’s not like the 15bis is fighting me-262s now or that the f-104 fights the javelin and mystere IIC, or that the literal su27 flanker can fight a mirage f1 but yea no you’re right we definitely don’t need any decompression
So lets drop the Phantom FGR2 down to 11.7 because its not equal to the F-4S.
Lets drop the Sea Harrier FA2 down to 12.7 because its not equal to the F3 Late
Lets drop the Tornado Gr1 down to 11.3 because its not equal to the Mig-23MLD.
Im not really sure what you expect. Its never going to be 100% decompress. Its about less of 2 evils. A mud mover 2K shouldnt really be facing 13.0s like the Gripen A.
Holy moly, do you even play this game?
The only way you are not going to have a power jump is if you just had seperate gamemodes for each eras. We dont have a dozen BRs between Props and jets, gunfighters and missiel fighter, rear aspect and all-aspect IR and SARH, IRCCM and IR. So why does there need to be a massive one for ARH.
Weak ARH slingers are tenatively weaker than the strong SARH slingers already. There is no way to seperate them without basically deleting those weak SARH slingers from the game. The only problem I see is the 14.0s facing 13.0s and 12.0s facing 13.0s.
Only takes adding 2x 0.3 brackets to fix those.
Please learn to read. This thread is ONLY talking about 12.x and above
Last time I checked, the Me-262, Mig-15bis, F-104, Javelin, etc etc were not 12.0 or higher.
No system will be 100% perfect. Without GSB Curated MM because it will always be a range. Something will always be better than you and something will always be weaker than you. That will never change without spreading every aircraft apart so far that you only ever fight the same 2 aircraft and it would be boring as hell.
Mig-23MLD and Mig-23ML are the same BR
Phantom FGR2 and F-4J(UK) are the same BR
Tornado F3 Late and Sea harrier FA2 are the same BR
So?
Right? And? They wouldnt be the same BR with what I proposed. Mriage F1 would be 12.0 and M2KD would be 12.3. Just like they are now,
All Mud movers are over BRed. This is a fact. They cannot move down currently, but if instead everything around them went up in BR, then the effect is the same. They get their correct BRs without creating further compression below. Win win.
Tornado Gr4 for example. Extremely hard to justify it being above 12.0 currently, but if everything above 12.0 increased in BR by 0.3. It would have the same effect as moving the GR4 down to 12.0 without actually moving it down to 12.0. Therefore 11.0s wouldnt have to face them.
the RMV is at 12.7 with only 2 missiles. Isnt that enough of a nerf to balance it? it shouldnt be 0.3 lower than the Gripen A with 6x IRCCM and HMD and is faster and can turn better. Thats rather stupid.
I think 12.7 is a perfectly reasonable place for it at the moment in terms of downtiers, but in uptiers its not strong enough. just like the GR4. By moving everything else up, you dont change the downtier situation, but you give you decompress what is above it.
and? F-18 should probably be 0.3 higher anyway. This is about broad decompression not individual BR corrections.
FGR2 is weaker than the F-4S and F-4S is weaker than Kurnass. So FGR2 at 12.0, F-4S at 12.3 and Kurnass at 12.7 would be perfectly reasonable.
Then go to another thread.
Hey, given the choice. Id rather see 8.0 - 10.0 decompressed over top tier. But this thread and therefore the post YOU responded to was ONLY talking about 12.x and above.
Gaijin is never going to decompress enough to everyone satisfaction.
Implementing this would take 5 minutes. Its simple and deals iwth the 2 major issues we have right here right now at top tier. 13.0s fighting 14.0s and 12.0s fighting 13.0s.
Is it perfect? no.
Can it be improved in the future? yes
Its a quick and dirty fix for the immediate short term problems whilst they actually work on fixing the actual problems with the air trees. Like the fact all mud movers are massively over BRed or the fact that 8.0 - 10.0 is a total and complete mess.
I think people overexagerate the problems at top tier and expect the difference in BR between late SARH/IR Slingers like the Gripen A, F-15A, Su-27, etc and early ARH slingers like FA2, Viggen Di, J-8F, etc to be greater than 1.0 of BR. If anything, the SARH and IR slingers are stronger than the ARH slingers at the moment.
Likewise I dont really see a huge amount of issues with the intermediate ARH slingers and the late ones. At least not that couldnt be addressed with some minor BR tweaks after the fact.
Going down to below 13.0 and looking at 12.0-12.7. Its just things like the F-18, F-16, Mig-29, etc etc being too good in a downtier vs the 11.3-11.7s. Move them up 0.3 and a lot of that goes away.
Also as already mentioned mud movers in that range can finally get the “BR reduction” they desperately need but have been unable to get. Individual BR changes might happen after the fact if something proves to strong, but I dont think any of the mud movers need major BR changes at this moment in time within that range.
Of course when we get BELOW decompressed in the future. Then stuff like 11.3s could be moved relatively speaking further away from the 12.0/12.3s we have now or even with my proposed decompression. But that is a subject of quite literally another thread, not a matter for a “12.x and above” thread.
and I would propose much the same there again though. Move the fighters up and leave the mud movers largely untouched,