No, I’ve had my games ruined because actual bombers just bombed 2 bases early instead of 1, or because planes that definitely should be bombing just beat me to them. There just aren’t enough bases and they don’t come back fast enough.
Do you understand the difference between positive and negative reinforcement? Further question after that, do you understand that negative reinforcement rarely works, and as a whole is a toxic manipulation method?
Dude - i am not willing to play games here. You are way too experienced for that.
If you ask such things:
And I ask:
You know exactly what i mean.
It is about survival chances in general - and specifically about chances of second bomb runs as the player @Conundrummer referred specifically to:
So if you refer to the Vautour IIb:
And if you refer to a B-17:
So we circle back to the missing purpose of bombing.
With some fantasy you can assess bases as strategic targets to destroy enemy supplies and the enemy airfield as strategic infrastructure.
Without this purpose and without a win condition “enemy airfield destroyed” bombing of bases is useless regarding the outcome.
Bombing bases is a legitimate tactic but it doesn’t enhance the game state. It’s not like it has any impact, we need actual targets that can be bombed but impact the game.
Bombers have been left in the dust in air RB and it’s purely down to the map and game design.
It hurts my soul seeing an F-15 loaded with AMRAAMs also carrying bombs…
To many Air RB is a just a place to level aircraft for ground battles.
What was she wearing? Did she go down any dark alleys? Did she say anything to somebody before it happened? I’m pretty sure you understand the message I’m trying to tell you here. My vautour literally has guns, its not defenseless. It’s just that you don’t want to admit or accept that many planes are ruined or bad because of the overall bomber meta being that there isn’t any way to play bombers that influences the match.
All i see that you are not consistent in your wording - and you simply ignored my disclaimer:
If i compare this:
with this:
You just contradict yourself.
No offense, but such things:
are simply not true.
As like in this thread i stated in almost any relevant thread dealing with bomber game play (for several years) that gaijin is unwilling to change their “anti-bomber” policy and that i don’t like this focus on TDM as it kills tactical and strategic game play as destroying tactical or strategic ground targets is the underlying reason for aerial warfare.
The only criticism you see from my side is based on the facts that:
The majority of players seems quite happy with the current situation and requests basically every few weeks “more bases” and “shorter respawn times” - i mean the mode is not called “Air BB” (=Base Bombing).
Gaijin shows zero interest to improve bomber game play despite this topic is similar frequent like “CAS” or “ODL” for the fellow Ground RB players and is discussed in countless threads and posts since May 2020.
The fact that gaijin overwhelms their target audience (=minors) with grind challenges and offers “buy-ins” at any BRs via premium products which sells like sliced bread.
The downside of this is the massive deterioration of the average players skill - combined with gaijins efforts to degrade the outcome of Air RB matches to a random event (16 vs 16, clouds, map design, etc.) by lowering the participation standards just in order to make actual skill less decisive.
So i have no idea how you can develop such a theory and have even the nerves to post such things.
To make this clear: I am not your enemy.
There is no need to shift goalposts, trying to assign untrue attributes to my understanding of demanding bomber game play or trying to play forum ping-pong.
Okay guess I’ll just go F myself with the Tornado strike bomber
There is no thing like a “Tornado strike bomber”.
The Tornado IDS (=Interdiction/Strike) is classical interdictor aircraft, optimized for striking high value targets at tree top level way out of reach for average fighters:
You struggle with your Tornado IDS because of this:
So gaijin has implemented these interdictor aircraft without adjusting their game play & map design policy.
That’s also why you see frequent complaints from classic CAS aircraft players like A-10s or Su-25s - their aircraft would be too slow to get to a base. I mean CAS is Close Air Support - their aircraft are designed to fight and survive in the most dangerous environment in a conflict = Above the actual front line / battlefield.
So also here: Gaijin is unable to provide an economic benefit for using these highly specialized aircraft in their intended roles and is unwilling to create realistic battle scenarios.
As long as the SL/RP income for certain actions is connected to gaijin sales strategy (and gaijin steers player behaviour with this SL/RP income) nothing will change.
That’s why it is highly questionable that gaijin is luring players into buying CAS / Interdictor aircraft without giving them the chance to use them to their strengths or for their intended roles;.
Most of these aircraft have similar chances to survive a match as guys with knives going to a gun fight - despite the fact that their BR setting policy (outside actual bombers) tries to increase their survival chances.
Hell no, no more reason for low level players to spam top tier premiums they only use to bomb.
They are a curse upon their teams as it is already
We need fighter premiums, I’d like to see a slightly worse variant of the EFT for 70€ though.
So ignore all the issues present with the system because you don’t like how top tier premium spammers play? You sound very reasonable!
Gaijin seems to not approve of adding things to do other than fly/drive forwards and shoot enemy players. And I dont understand it, having different game modes with different objectives makes the game more interesting/engaging and brings more players into the game while keeping them longer.
Currently this is the only way to play bombers. If you attempt to stay in the match you are actively punished and given no opportunity to do anything to help your team win.
Gaijin needs to bring back the bombing of an air field win objective so bombers are useful to the matches.
It is an issue for you to be concerned about cause whether he loads more bombs, which is all he can do, or leaves he still isnt contributing to the match which is your complaint.
if the bomb airfield objective was brung back them bombers could contribute.
Alot of the player base is on your side, but at the end of the day I doubt making more bases, or bases respawn faster, is a solution to the main issue that bombers are useless when it comes to influencing a match. Adding more bases/quicker respawns will only make more people play bombers, which would mean there would still be a quantity of bases issue.
And this is what drives any change Gaijin makes. They dont actually care what the players want or need.
Buddy I know what the “IDS” in “Tornado IDS” is and the NATO doctrine regarding aircrafts like it. My response is to the guy who wants base respawn rate go even lower to “discourage people to just bomb bases”, and let’s be honest, people would just bomb the vehicle columns instead, then how am I supposed to unlock the upgrades for my TECH TREE Tornado ASSTA1, compete with everyone else in killing ground targets then die because I got no cover, or go A2A myself then die because my aircraft is inferior?
I’m be real with you even if they make air RB works like real life, what makes you think it’ll stop someone from doing the same thing they’re doing now but with extra distance
I wouldn’t have an issue with this if it would stop every player trucking bases in perfectly good interceptors and fighters. A common theme across many players (including those who advocate for more bases/faster base respawns) is that they only care about their shiny top tier missile slingers and look at everything else as an obstacle. Personally, i do not like my teams being flooded by these brainless grinders. It is very sad to see that Air RB has turned into a low skill grind mode. “Just play sim!!!” Well i don’t want to visually ID everything, use sim controls, or play in cockpit camera. That is why i play RB, and i hate to see how it’s deteriorated.
Considering Ground RB has no PvE objectives, Air RB should also have no PvE objectives. Give the PvE pilots and braindead top tier grinders a different mode so they’ll stop complaining about “Bombers are too fragile” and things like this.
Call me a toxic fighter main, anything, i do not care. It changes nothing. I want to enjoy the PvP game instead of watch it slowly deteriorate and fill with brainless grinders. No, i do not enjoy top tier. As i said earlier, props as well as every jet BR below 13.0 is filled with suicide grinders and people bombing in fighters. It makes me sad to see that this is also offsetting balance! These players got aircraft like J-7D, J35XS, J35A, F-16A and MiG-21SMT moved to absurdly low BRs they do not need to be at. J-7D, J35XS and MiG-21SMT are RUINING the 9.3, 9.7 and 10.0 aircraft right now and makes it no fun.
All of this just can be tied back to bombers, PvEers and players who do not want to impact the game apart from making it to top tier. adding EVEN MORE bases for fighters to bomb does NOT fix attackers and bombers at any tier. More fighters will just bomb.
GRB has much more player-controlled targets though, as it’s a multi spawn mode.
Removing bots from ARB would be a final nail in the coffin to the mode which would turn into a brainless TDM brawl. Not only that, all other aircraft types that aren’t suited for A2A combat would basically become 3rd class (yes 3rd, as they’re already 2nd at this moment in time) citizens in their own mode, which is obviously hilariously dumb.
We need to have ground targets that have some real impact to the match.
Support
I know you do. <3
I am not sure if you got my points - therefore i would like to clarify:
I just miss in this whole debate a kind of reality check what kind of video game we are playing and why certain things are like they are:
In other words:
Therefore:
Have a good one!
Imho there is nothing wrong with your pov.
As stated earlier, wt is outside Air SB just a plain shooter. But from my pov you miss the decisive point:
The overwhelming majority of players in Air RB are playing the mode for other reasons than yours; it doesn’t matter if they are grinding for top tier or try to spade or research aircraft they need or want to use in Ground RB.
As long as gaijin rewards a base kill with 3 times the amount of RP compared to a player kill nothing will change. Before the May 2023 riot repair cost limited somehow the situation you described, but currently base bombers make a profit as soon as they drop, they don’t lose SL and earn RP with rather limited effort.
So instead of blaming those players which simply follow the carrot presented by gaijin, you might want to acknowledge that gaijin created an almost perfect symbiotic circle with their current game design:
Players who don’t want (doesn’t matter of unable or unwilling) to play PvP are forced to play Air RB due to the bad economy in Ground RB. They try to farm SL & RP and got farmed by PvP players.
So in other words:
Experienced PvP players are the main beneficiaries of the current state of Air RB.
I disagree from an immersion pov:
The whole point of having fighters is to prevent enemy bombers to destroy critical infrastructure.
Have a good one!
How about leading by example?
There are several things that come to mind.
Personally, I am against increasing the number of respawns. We have enough base bombing as it is. Imho, it would be better to reduce the incentive to base bomb.
On the other hand, I would like to caution the “bombers make my team lose” faction. By having all these players play fighters, things won’t be easier, because this will affect both teams. Basically 4-8 easy kills are gone. And oneself will more often be the victim of another fighter. The win chances won’t increase either, while the number of kills you score will likely decrease. So careful what you ask for.
There are some people with a compulsion to end matches, even when there is plenty of RP/SL to be farmed with little risk. The RB economy suffers more from this player type than from Gaijin.