Just a question, but for the T-610, I’m having difficulty finding data on secondary ordnance, do you happen to know what it offers?
While I support the addition of nations like Thailand and the Philippines into the Japanese techtree, I don’t think “Nanshin-ron” is a good idea. It just seems a bit tasteless regarding the circumstances.
It’s an interesting idea considering there is historical context to it, but that context makes up for 80% of the arguments against such subtrees. A better idea would be to name such an update after the new nation, giving them their individual spotlight. This would represent the update better and not rub salt in old wounds.
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Japan has not yet made any apology for the war of aggression against China, and even most Japanese did not learn it in school!
Oh, so did Korea get an apology? Your argument is contradictory.
To be honest, you don’t want Japan to get Chinese-made vehicles that Southeast Asian countries have, so you just want to THROW South Korea instead? Just because it “come from the European Union or the United States”?
By your logic, both Israel and Saudi Arabia are hostile to Iran and use American vehicles, so they can be combined into one tree. Of course, this is nonsense.
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Japan apologized to everyone?
Best joke I’ve heard this year.
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I see. I must say, I might have overlooked this part regarding how the word “Nanshin-ron” can be seen as a rubbing salt in old wounds, maybe because I saw it as just a name of the doctrine or set of actions, akin to “Operation: Barbarossa”. I also do agree with the slowly introduction of nation, one or two at a time, when it comes to nations/regions like South East Asia as a subtree to the pre-existing nation trees, I was getting a little bit too work up on seeing ASEAN nations, like Philippines and Indonesia, alongside my nation, Thailand, being presented in one single tree. Maybe, the introduction of Thailand as a sub-tree update could be called something like “Naga Thunder”, inspired by the Phaya Nak or Phaya Nāga, a mythical creature of Mekong river and the patrons of water in Thai culture and society.
Also, I would like to remind the participants of the thread, that while the discussion regarding the history might be unavoidable when it comes to historical designs, concepts, and stories regarding vehicles, please make sure to avoid antagonizing or lean too much toward the political side of the discussion. After all, this is a thread discussing the idea of including Thailand, and other fellow South East Asian nations, to an extent, as a minor nation or nations to the existing tech tree. Please, keep it constructive, or informative, as much as possible.
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Regarding the T-610 Super Pinto, I’ve looked into it a little bit and I found it to be quite an interesting aircraft as well. According to the general knowledge regarding the T-610 “Cali” Super Pinto, it had 6 underwing hardpoints with a capacity of up to 3,500 kg, with a combination of 2 × 7.62 mm caliber machine guns mentioned in the wiki. I also came across the images and detail regarding its secondary armament on the website Уголок неба ¦ AJI T-610 Super Pinto. According to the rough translation, besides the mentioned gun pods, it could also carry 2 PU 70-mm NUR or light bombs with a total weight of up to 400 kg.
Images from the site:
The image of Pinto with 6 hardpoints from the Secret Project Forum Philippine Government T-610 Calí jet trainer | Secret Projects Forum
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According to recent news, South Korea has given up its history of being invaded by Japan with the help of the United States
Just a friendly reminder that Japan and Thailand (then Siam) were both allied during ww2, albeit somewhat reluctantly on the Thai side.
Thailand (Siam) received vehicles and fought alongside Japan in parts of SE Asia.
So while I understand the Imperialism chanting, I feel like maybe people are forgetting that the Thai government actively chose to participate with the Japanese, rather than becoming puppet states like many other countries.
Of course they didn’t have a hand in most of the atrocities that Japan committed, but they were still referred to as the “Italy of Asia” by both the Allies and Japan (wikipedia).
As far as relations go, I see no reason as to why this shouldn’t count given that Japan would be receiving vehicles operated by Thailand (Siam) during ww2.
Edit: Wikipedia copy and paste v
[Thailand] officially adopted a neutral position during World War II until the five hour-long [Japanese invasion of Thailand] on 8 December 1941, which led to an armistice and military alliance treaty between [Thailand] and the [Japanese Empire] in mid-December 1941. At the start of the [Pacific War], the Japanese Empire pressured the Thai government to allow the passage of Japanese troops to invade British-held [Malaya] and [Burma]. After the invasion, Thailand capitulated. The Thai government under [Plaek Phibunsongkhram] (known simply as Phibun) considered it profitable to co-operate with the Japanese war efforts, since Thailand saw Japan – who promised to help Thailand regain some of the [Indochinese territories] in today’s [Laos], [Cambodia], and [Vietnam] which had been lost to France – as an ally against Western imperialism. Following added pressure from the start of the [Allied bombings of Bangkok] due to the Japanese occupation, [Axis]-aligned Thailand declared war on the United Kingdom and the United States and annexed territories in neighbouring countries, expanding to the north, south, and east, gaining a border with [China] near [Kengtung]
After becoming an ally of the Empire of Japan, Thailand retained control of its armed forces and internal affairs. The Japanese policy on Thailand differed from their relationship with the puppet state of [Manchukuo]. Japan intended bilateral relationships similar to those between [Nzi Germany] and [Finland], [Bulgaria] and [Romania]. However, Thailand at that time was labelled by both the Japanese and the [Allies] as the “Italy of Asia” or “Oriental Italy”, a secondary power.
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Japan has not yet made any apology for the war of aggression against China, and even most Japanese did not learn it in school!
So I think South Korea is more suitable because most of its weapons technology and that of Japan come from the European Union or the United States.
Fight with yourself. o7
P.S. Feel free to point out other countries’ education, but don’t expect the CCP’s teaching of international order to be accurate either.
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English is not my native language, this is a translator issue, and the true meaning should be that most Japanese people are unaware of the existence of the War of Aggression against China and the Nanjing Massacre. O7
Regarding the South Korean issue, according to the South Korean government, with the “help” of the United States, they have solved the problems with Japan during World War II
Another 2 lovely aircraft that I would love to see in Thai Tree would be the Boripatra Bomber (B.Th.2) and Prajadhipok Fighter (B.Kh.5). While I couldn’t find the armaments they were equipped with, one could imply that they were capable of being equipped with the similar planes of their classes or that they based of; Bréguet 14 for Boripatra, and Nieuport-Delage NiD 29 for Prajadhipok. I think that they would make quite a collectable Teir 1 premiums.
Prajadhipok
Boripatra
On the other hand, Thailand/Siam once had quite an impressive air industry capable of producing around 200 locally made Aircrafts, mostly foreign licenses.
Siamese Made Bréguet 14 (B.Kh4) ขัติยะนารี ๑ (Khattiyanari 1
Thai Made O2U Corsair
Thai Built Hawk 3
I would love seeing these planes being added in the Tier 1 in the Thai-sub tree
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The current South Korean president bizarrely insists on love with Japan, as his approval rating shows, but he never said “with the “help” of the United States, we’ve solved the problems with Japan during World War II”.
Do you trust the Chinese state media?
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During World War II, Thailand allied itself with Japan, and it cannot be denied that this is a very strong connection.
In my opinion, the things to discuss in this topic are:
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- Should it be in the form of a sub-tree or a form in which vehicles are added individually?
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- The justification for giving Thailand to Japan is an alliance during World War II. By the way, how should Thailand treat its vehicles after World War II? During the Cold War, the United States, not Japan, exerts a dominant influence in Thailand. And now, the post-Cold War world, we’re trying to achieve a regional balance between the two axes, the US and China. (The purchase of the VT-4 from China, and the rejection of the offer to purchase the F-35 from the United States shows this well.) Incorporating all vehicles in Thailand, which are balancing and not focused on a specific country, into a specific country TT can be problematic. The VT-4 will be a problem if incorporated into an American or Japanese TT, and many Western-made vehicles will be a problem if incorporated into a Chinese TT. I would be offended if I were in either position.
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I’m pretty sure we are past that point already.
There are a lot of western tanks in the ground tree and half the entire air tree is made up of western aircraft, not to mention chinese players are already begging for a Mirage 2000 and Taiwanese Abrams.
As I stated before regarding this aspect, and worry.
And for justification for Post-WW2 Tech tree, I am more focusing on the cold war aspect, how Thai became one of US Strategic Allies like that of Japan, making it quite sharing a similar alliance with Japan, and United States.
Seal of Royal Thai Army Expeditionary Division (Black Panther) as a part of Thailand’s Involvement in Vietnam War
Black Panther Division colors come off USS Okanogan, Newport, 29 July 1968
Taiwan-Republic of China- should be treated differently. Like West/East Germany, South/North Korea, they share the same identity, only divided for political reasons. Reasonable.
I would be against it if the Chinese TT was to get Pakistani Mirage and not Taiwan.
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Yes, that’s why I made my point at the beginning of this discussion.
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What you said has no basis at all. Taiwan and China are one country, and they are only divided due to civil war. And Thailand and Japan are two countries and only had partial connections during World War II.
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Then, it seems that the part where the opinions of the two sides diverge is post-Cold War Thailand. More directly, VT-4.
We need to discuss this. Talking about other trivial things is a little waste.
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