Idea and Discussion: Thailand As A Minor Nation

Machinery of War Discussion
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The following post is still pending in the Suggestion Category. While my initial idea was for Thai vehicles to be added to JP Tech tree to create some varieties, especially the post war tier, due to its similar nature to Chinese Tech tree (mix of US and allied vehicles) it might also make sense for this idea to be put in Chinese tech instead.

Premise: Despite its limited role during the Second World War, Kingdom of Thailand (Siam) was considered as one of the “allies” of Japanese Empire, acting as the staging ground for the Burma and Southeast Asia campaigns as well as acting as the member of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. During the early war period, Royal Thai Armed Forces mainly utilized various European equipment as well as Japanese equipment, both Army and Air force. Notable examples are Vickers Mk.E Type B utilized during the Franco-Thai War, Ki-21, Ki-30, Curtiss P-36 Hawk, and Martin B-10.

During the 2nd world war period, most of the Royal Thai Armed Force and Army utilized Japanese equipment, most of which have already been implemented in Japanese Tech Tree, and some captured equipment during its Burma and Southeast Asia campaigns.

The interesting part of the Royal Thai Airfoce tech tree, however, is its post war and cold war development. As a key strategic position during the early and middle part of the cold war, Thailand and its armed forces became the dumping ground for Allied old equipment; from British famous Supermarine Spitfire FR.14/PR.19 to American SB2C-5 Helldiver.

As the Vietnam war raged on, Thailand became even more important strategic partner with US and began to import US aircrafts, such as F-84G Thunderjet and F-86F/L Sabre. The Vietnam Era Aircraft that’s still under RTAF service is F-5s; While Variant A, B, and C have already been retired from service, the E variant is still currently being used and even now under the refurbishment and developed into F-5TH Super Tigris which, according to the official document, would push F-5E to Gen 4.5, a small number of F-5TH have already rolled out for service.

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(F-5TH Proposed Update)

The Highest End of the RTAF Tech tree would be the F-16s, of which the variants under RTAF service are F-16A Block 15 ADF, F-16A Block 15 OCU, F-16AM Block 20 MLU, F-16B Block 15 ADF, F-16B Block 15 OCU, and F-16BM Block 20 MLU.

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(RTAF F-16B)

Objective: The main objective of adding RTAF to the current Japanese Tree is to expand Japanese Tech tree, especially the late war, post war, and cold war parts of the tree.

List of the Vehicles that could be added to each tier (Criteria is that it must be at least 10+ in number utilized and/or could be considered as gameplay viable)

Tier 1- (include Thai Designation for distinction in-game naming) (* for folder vehicles)
Curtiss Hawk II * (B.Kh9)
Curtiss Hawk III * (B.Kh10)
Vought V-93S Corsair (B.J1)
Martin B-10 139WSM * (B.Th3)
Martin B-10 139WSM-2 * (B.Th3)
Martin B-10 166 * (B.Th3)
Curtiss Hawk 75N (B.Kh11)

Tier 3
SB2C-5 Helldiver (B.J3)
Fairey Firefly FR.1 (B.J4)
Supermarine Spitfire FR.14 * (B.Kh14)
Supermarine Spitfire PR.19 * (B.Kh14)

Tier 4
Grumman F8F-1 Bearcat (B.Kh15)

Tier 5
F-84G Thunderjet (B.Kh16)
Cessna A-37 (B.J6)
Rockwell OV-10C Bronco (B.J5)

Tier 6
F-86F (B.Kh17)
F-86L (B.Kh17)
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(North American F-86L Sabre of the RTAF in flight)
F-5A* (B.Kh18)
F-5B* (B.Kh18)
F-5C (B.Kh18)
AV-8S Matador

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Tier 7
F-5E
F-5F
Dornier Alpha Jet A
Ling-Temco-Vought A-7E Corsair II

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Tier 8
F-5TH Super Tigris
F-16A Block 15 ADF
F-16A Block 15 OCU
F-16AM Block 20 MLU
F-16B Block 15 ADF
F-16B Block 15 OCU
F-16BM Block 20 MLU

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Interesting idea, though having such a diverse mix of vehicles from different nations would ruffle the feathers of many nations if they weren’t added to their respectable trees. IMO, a unified SEA tree would be a better proposition.

Adding it to Japan would make sense to some degree, as you mentioned, but the post-war stuff doesn’t have anything to do with Japan.

I’m more opposed to the Thai tree being added to China, because while the Thais use some Chinese equipment, they already have a “minor” nation as it is already, and again would be adding vehicles from different nations into one.

Would have been cool to see minor nations unlocked by playing any major tree related to them. Like completing the American/Japanese/Chinese tech tree to a certain point could unlock access to the Thai tree, for example. Though I’m unsure how lineups would work.

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Yeah but we already have vehicles within the game that have nothing to do with that nation. Plus finding a nation for Japan that has connections to their vehicles literally does not even exists as Japan doesn’t really export like at all. So i think in this case a sub tree for Japan would be less about connections and more of a in game balancing decision similar to the F-16AJ.

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From my pov all of these suggestions of sub-trees try to strengthen line up’s of certain nations in order to be able to compete with the big 3 nations.

From a holistic pov these efforts are just trying to fix flaws of gaijin - combined with some healthy patriotism it looks like there is nothing wrong with that.

What i see is that with every sub tree the already highly fictional game play gets even more worse. It is the same story like with captured vehicles - at a certain point of time there is simply no no connection of irl and game play left.

If you buy a US 109 F-4 you face the same plane on the German and Italian side and a you meet similar Romanian 109 G-2 and a Finnish 109 G-2. Same story with P-47s or P-51 Cs. Where is the realism?

I mean gaijin implements sub-trees simply to earn money and allocates minor nations or vehicles mainly on income projections and obviously sometimes just on a case-by-case decision; historical, technological or cultural similarities play imho only a role if they are suited to “sell” a decision.

So from my perspective the Nation set-up needs to be changed - meaning that the player can combine in his line up certain nations that make sense (and maybe switch them) at various point of times - so without adding sub-trees and attaching one Nation fixed to another.

Anyway, i wish you good luck with your project!

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@NiceNiti You missed T-50TH Golden Eagle with armament, avionics & radar some FA-50/TA-50 equipment and JAS 39 Gripen C in tier 8 ?

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For such countries, there may not be a tree for them, and vehicles may enter the relevant country separately.

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I think that Thailand in Tech Tree Japan from what I have studied should be added as follows. Which has the advantage of increasing Japanese CAS better. and more aircraft used in the late.

*Blue = Thai Aircraft Tree
*Gray = Japanese Aircraft Tree

Thai Tech Tree (2)
Thai Tech Tree (2)1551×900 105 KB

*There are ships, helicopters and tanks tech tree too.
*For information of aircraft will follow in the new forum.

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He created this suggestion last year from old forum

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My thoughts on this;
The F-16AM for example could replace the F-16AJ as an actual IRL existing vehicle and something more future proof (current F-16AJ cannot be fitted with AMRAAM or other additional armament such as LGBs), until the F-15J / DJ and F-2A / F-2A ‘Late’ arrive. We already know that more advanced missiles such as the PL-12 (which comes close to the AIM-120C-5) are on their way into the game and Japan has again nothing domestic to offer thats not “broken and too advanced” in the eyes of the devs and some players (even though a XF-2A with temopary PD Radar, such as the AN/APG-68 which was delivered to Japan for the FS-X project, could fit now)

But I also think we shouldn´t include C&P vehicles like the Spitfires, which are also quite unnecessary considering the amount of very capable Zero´s and my favourites; the Ki-84s.

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I I don’t write this. But I have the same opinion.

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I have a any Idea of Thailand in Tank Helicopter and Naval Tech Tree.

*Blue = Thai Vehicle Tree
*Gray = Japanese Vehicle Tree

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*For information of aircraft will follow in the new forum.
*It’s not complete. But it can be updated in the future.

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Interesting take on the topic of japanese sub tree, Thai vehicles fit pretty well in all aspects with Japanese tech tree. I’m personally interested in addition of Ukrainian vehicles, like BTR-3Е1 and Oplot-T MBT.

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Solid idea, but it might need more exploration. For example, there are 3 M60A3TTS variations in Thai service, the “M113A2” isn’t specific to an armament, there is a second stingray variant which is the turret on a bulldog chassis, etc. Thailand could also fill in for Japan’s SAM gap with some combination of Starstreak, the Mock-Up Roland, and their ADATs in placement. Not to mention, I don’t think the 90mm BTR should come after the 105mm armed Type 16 which is almost certainly superior. In the air, there are more Thai f-5 variants, and the gripen should be somewhere on here considering it should be coming to the game soon-ish.

Needless to say, solid idea but it needs more thought to formalize it.

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Maybe the Gripen wouldn’t need to be added considering that the Thai sub tree would bring multiple F-16s and upgraded F-5s plus Japan has the F-15s and F-2s so i don’t see the gripen as necessary.

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I think adding Thailand to Japan as a full subtree would be an excellent way to bring Japan in Line with China in terms of current and Future TT depth.

This would set a precedent for being able to loop in more SE Asian Subtrees to both China and Japan in the future. This would also allow the US to take SK as a Subtree without aggrivating quite as many people who want to see it added to Japan for balance purposes.

I think all branches of the JP TT would greatly benefit greatly from Thailand being added as a Subtree.

Edit: word choice

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I think US TT doesnt need sub tree, it has enough vehicles to be added in future to even form another branch. I know many would disagree with me, but SK should be part of United Korea tree which would include both SK and NK ( like China combining ROK and PRC), I’ve seen concepts of ground, air and heli trees, and they all seem legit to be a stand-allone tree starting at rank 5 ( just like Israel at rank 4 ). I know there are a lot pattons there and Magach situation could happen again(((, but regardless of that there are just too much domestic IFV, TD and MBT designs to fit all in one small sub tree.
Sorry for my english, I’m not a native speaker.

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That would work as well, I would also agree that the US doesn’t need a Subtree.

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Having a Thai Subtree in the Japanese TT should be fine, maybe paired with (postwar) Philippines as well to further fill up the later tiers (Tier IV onwards) of the Japanese TT, the earlier tiers don’t need as much help but it will still be nice for variety sake

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I think Thailand should not join as a sub technology tree of Japan, because it has almost no tanks developed/manufactured by itself, but buys foreign trade tanks from other countries. Especially after the Cold War, Thailand has a large number of tanks made by China. Imagine that if you see the tanks that should have been obtained by China in the Science and technology in Japan technology tree, this is not appropriate, so Thailand should act as a Southeast Asian line with other Southeast Asian countries, Alternatively, the vehicles purchased by Thailand from other countries can be sent to the countries that sell them like 69IIG.

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Maybe it doesn’t need to have every single vehicle in Thai armed forces’ history, just one that’s iconic or historic enough to see and feel like it represents Thai armed forces’ identity/uniqueness especially during WW2 and Cold War periods, such as M60s, F-5s, or Commando Stingray (Which Thailand is the only foreign user.) similar to how Finnish Sub tree works in Sweden Tech Tree

(Sorry for many edits, just wanted to clarify things)

1 Like