because Italy vehicles
“You can’t handle the truth”
- Jack Nicholson
I have the 2S38, and anyone who says it’s 10.0 is acting in bad faith. If this tank were part of the regular lineup of any other nation, it would be at 11.3, but since it’s premium, we know why it’s at this BR. The bad thing about the WT community is that people insist on going against the obvious for their own benefit.
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OTOMATIC has better anti-air capabilities and better APFSDS, and even then it’s fairly weak at 11.3.
I’m not sure about that. I think it would fit 10.7-11.0 just fine, 11.3 might be pushing it. It’s certainly much less frustrating to fight against now that the new modules have been added.
Not me justifying it being at 10.3 btw. I do think it should go up, just not a whole 1.0 BR.
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I do not have the 2S38 because it’s bad, even if it were 9.3 I would never ever first spawn it over the T-72A. Light tanks are off-meta and the great bulk of them are outrageously overtiered.
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That is simply incorrect. Light tanks have recently become the new meta, which I think Gaijin has acknowledged, judging how they are adding vehicles like the Fox, BMD, RDF, XM800, etc. Versatility allows you to take rapid control of the battlefield, same with versatility through speed or fire.
Light tanks are getting weaker as you climb in BR. From 10.0 up, scout drones and scout ability is what’s keeping them decent.
Exactly, the HSTVL at 11.7 is a tank with excellent performance wasted at top tier. The 2S38, which performs similarly (we don’t see it in matches because it’s a premium vehicle that everyone can buy), is at 10.0 and is very strong at this BR.
XM8, CCVL, 2S38, Striker, Rooikat, Centauro, 2S25M, and Tam are far from being bad vehicles. Past that, you get into more autocannon missile light tanks. These are mostly terrible because they’ve either been gimped through missile rebalances or don’t carry a lot of missiles to begin with, which is often their primary and most useful weapon (Namer, Puma, KF41). An exception to this is the BMP-2M.
2S38 is 10.3, and is vastly inferior to HSTVL.
HSTVL at 11.7 is exactly as powerful as 2S38 is at 10.3.
Currently, the HSTV-L could be moved to a lower BR without issue. But if Gaijin changed it to be more reflective of its IRL self, then it could easily be placed at 12.7 while still being a comfortable vehicle at said BR. I think the 2S38 should be raised to 10.7 or 11.0, and the current HSTV-L should be lowered to 10.7 or 11.0.
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How?
- They have a similar pen currently.
- 2S38 has a faster loading
- 2S38 has better thermals
- 2S38 has more than triple the ammo of the HSTV-L
- 2S38 has a crewless turret
- HSTV-L is more mobile
- HSTV-L has better gun depression
They are both very similar to one another.
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So your post is arguing that Strf 9040C, 2S38, and HSTVL all have similar pen.
I bring up Strf 9040C as that’s the implication, as Strf 9040C is as far away from the pen of 2S38 as HSTVL is from the pen of 2S38.
2- Faster reloading doesn’t matter as they’re not facing each other.
3- Marginal difference.
4- Which only matters against aircraft. HSTVL has 26 rounds, which worst case is 5 frags. If you get more than 5 frags per match in HSTVL that’s a KMR of 5:1, and a KDR of likely over 5:1. In reality, HSTVL has enough ammo for ~12 frags of ground targets.
5- Only the commander is in the turret, otherwise HSTVL’s is crewless as well.
Out of everything you mentioned, only mobility matters the most, and your post is ncorrect about penetration.
Most are fine, but what about Striker is good lol ?
120mm Centauro is also meh at best and 2S25M isn’t much better either.
No reason for HSTV-L to be at the same BR as 2S38.
It has more pen, more spall, much better mobility, gun depression and survivability. It lacks in thermals quality, shell count and IRT.
2S38 with it’s 23.3 HP/t at 11.0 would be actually slower than plenty of MBTs, which in the end defeats the purpose of light vehicles. This is one of the problems that haunts 120mm Centauro at 11.7, as it’s basically a slow tank with no armor that has average reload with average shell and average optics.
HSTV-L has crewless turret when commander dies as well.
Having above average mobility is key to any light vehicle, otherwise you’d be better off just playing MBTs.
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So, this is not an accurate or appropriate comparison at all.
- HSTV-L has a top pen of 269mm mm, and 2S38 is 221mm mm (48mm difference). Strf 9040C has a pen of 142 mm (79mm difference). It is nearly double and below 200 mm, which means that, unlike the 2S38, it has a more challenging time penning anything frontally. Unlike the 2S38 or the HSTV-L, that vehicle cannot pen the diver port of an Eastern tank.
- Faster reloading is crucial when firing a small round with low spalling. The 2S38 does not have much spalling like the HSTV-L, but its high fire rate compensates for that.
- It’s not marginal; go on any long-range map. Increased visibility of a target allows for better accuracy on weak spots, which is essential for a tank with a low pen.
- No, fight leopards in the HSTV-L, and you will quickly run out of ammo. Also, you need to budget the amount of ammo between proxy and darts compared to the 2S38.
- Somewhat fair, but overpressure is easier on the HSTV-L because it is not crewless. A smaller crewless turret also creates less spalling, meaning you are less likely to damage a critical component like the turret ring.
Out of everything you mentioned, it shows you have likely not played both tanks. They are both very similar in game in terms of playstyle. And your post is incorrect about thermals and reload.
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I think the 2S38 is a bit easier to deal with now that it has more modules and the frontal fuel tank doesn’t eat every single round, but I find it more disturbing that gaijin gave the HSTV-L a 33% faster fire-rate as well as proxy shells and IRST and didn’t think it needed to be moved up (because obviously its been meh for years). They clearly know this thing isn’t worth the BR placement of 11.7 and I have absolutely no clue why they don’t change it. It should easily have been 11.0 before the buff to fire rate and even after I’d still say 11.0/11.3 is generous. I also don’t like how they folded so easy under pressure from a single youtube video to change something that players have been reporting for years with primary sources, it shouldnt take threatening their sales to get balance and historically accurate vehicles within their game.
At least you warned me your post was going to be inaccurate.
100 meters 60 degrees:
HSTVL: 310mm.
2S38: 256mm.
Strf 9040C: 194mm. 142 never shows up on the statcard.
Thickness of steel plate /cos 60 = amount steel material penetrated.
Spoiler
2- Relying on spalling for frags is what gets you fragged.
I recommend getting good with APCR with M26 so you improve as a player for these APFSDS rounds.
Your reload only needs to be faster than the MBTs you’re attempting to frag.
3- Thermals is thermals, and gen 1 thermals retains my longest range ground to ground frag at 3.3km: IPM1.
4- I already have, Leopards usually take 1 - 2 shots to frag, well within their 6.3 second reload. The most one took was 3 cause I had a skill issue. I never bring proxy with HSTVL and never will, that’s not its purpose.
@SolareHQ Proxy and IR tracking doesn’t move BRs of vehicles. They don’t increase capability when they’re already above 9.3 in BR.
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It does when you look it up on WarThunder Wiki.
Then why would it ever be given it? It does have a purpose, and a very good one at that, in the game. I’ve heard from plenty that they use their HSTV-L as a replacement for the ADATS solely because of its proxy. Ignoring this tells me you are already biased and not open to discussion. And you indeed suffer from an ammo problem in the HSTV-L since you sacrificed a good shell for more darts. Do you only take darts in the 2S38, or do you have both? Gaijin could also improve this problem by simply giving the HSTV-L a more reliable shell. Then it’d make more sense to have it at a higher BR than a tank that plays nearly identical to it at a much lower BR.
Properly played aircraft won’t ever come close enough for you to use HE-VT.
Helicopters with ATGMs can also be countered by M1s and their proxy HEAT + LRF.
Or they could give it an ammo box.
HSTVL only plays identically to HSTVL. Only Russia would claim 2S38 is anywhere close to HSTVL in capabilities when it so obviously isn’t>
2S38 is significantly slower with blatantly worse ammunition.
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