HSTV-L VS. the 2S38 (BR)

I am somewhat confused about the Battle Rating (BR) assignment for these two vehicles. The HSTV-L sits at a BR of 11.3, while the 2S38 is at a BR of 10.0. Despite the HSTV-L having a moderately higher penetration of 276mm (225mm vs. 276mm), it seems questionable to place it at such a high BR when the 2S38 remains at 10.0.

The 2S38 compensates for its lower penetration with a [/u]considerably higher fire rate, GEN 3 thermals[/u] (compared to the GEN 1 thermals on the HSTV-L),[/u] proximity fuse rounds, an IRST lead indicator, making it extremely potent against aircraft, and a completely crewless turret.[u]

If there are reasons I am missing, besides the HSTV-L having a lower profile, for the HSTV-L to have been placed at such a high BR, please let me know. However, constantly facing tanks it can’t consistently kill from the side due to high ERA (such as the T-90M) and spall liners (which already negate its almost non-existent spall) feels a bit ridiculous.

(Edit: Yes, it also has amazing mobility and good hull down survivability, but even when you get to a good flank on the enemy, Relict ERA or spall liner absorbs your entire shell even from the side. I’m not necessarily saying that the HSTV-L should go down, even though it would fair much better at a 10.7-10.3 BR range, I’m more saying that the 2S38 should go up.)


HSTV-L has better mobility than the 2S38, but that’s about the only point you missed.

The 2S38 is an 10.7 - 11.0 vehicle, but it benefits from both Pay2Win and RussianBias™. That’s the reason it’s 10.0.


While the 2S38 is undertiered, people who seem to not play the HSTV-L (or who have just got it and always seem to under-rate it) always forget that the HSTV-L has extreme survivability when hull down and also has… massive, massive gun depression to utilize that.

He also missed what I stated above.

While I do agree fully, it really does not have a round that can utilize a good hull down position over distance.


I wouldn’t say extreme survivability. A proxy shell can overpressure you easily/kill the gunner, whereas the 2S38 has an completely unmanned turret.

-17 degrees is great, but you’re not really doing much from hull down positions with penetration that low at 11.3. HSTV-L also has zero ability to fight back against aircraft, whereas the 2S38 is one of the best gun SPAA in the game.


This 100%


Gunner sits in the hull, so when your commander gets taken out you’re basically a vehicle with an unmanned turret.

I wouldn’t say that’s totally true cause I can kill them with HE shells to the front when I’m using my OTO.

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you say this but go on to use an example of a rare shell. Most ammo fired at you is APFSDS and it’s pretty good at not dying to that in hull down

Yeah you are? You can frontally kill any MBT.

Not many people have/use HE

Every tank has at least some sort of HE stock no?

If you have to lose a crewman for it to be “unmanned” it doesn’t really count…2s38 has a completely invulnerable turret with all three crew completely safe.

People using HE shells on light tanks is not rare lol…the fact that proxy can outright kill you was just an example of how the tank doesn’t have this insane survivability you speak of.

Not really. Especially not as easily as the 2s38 can kill any vehicle it comes across at 10.0.

He’s basically saying that he doesn’t bother bringing HE shells, therefore no one else does either. Maybe he wouldn’t have a hard time killing hstv if he actually brought some.



No, I’m saying that AS WELL AS the fact most top tier does NOT get HE.

Almost every single top tier tank has some form of explosive shell. Unless you’re going to say HEAT doesn’t count, in which case I give up, as you’re just going to keep moving goalposts.

Explain these then. Also there are special HE shells you can research for some MBTs as well.


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HSTVL is a drastically superior vehicle than 2S38.
HSTVL has over 50mm more pen, which is over 15% extra pen.
HSTVL is faster, has better optics, better armor, and is smaller.
The exclusive downside of HSTVL is gen 1 thermals, everything else HSTVL is superior to 2S38 with.

HSTVL is at least 0.7 BRs superior to 2S38, and IMO it’s 1.0 BRs superior.

Any post that claims 2S38 is anywhere close to HSTVL in performance is just a defense of 2S38 against legitimate criticism.

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Wow, razervon just admitted the 2S38 is undertiered. Never thought I’d see the day.

Great to see you making progress friend.