I stated optics, which means the glass and its characteristics.
You know… the literal definition of optics as per dictionaries. Good to know you accuse dictionaries of being incorrect though.
Thermals augment the optics, but are not themselves the optics. The term you’re looking for is FCS, which 2S38 has a superior only cause its newer, but FCS doesn’t do anything in WT ground right now.
1 Like
Optics, as defined by Merriam-Webster: “a science that deals with the genesis and propagation of light, the changes that it undergoes and produces, and other phenomena closely associated with it”
Thermal imagers deal with light in a non-visible spectrum. Therefore, a thermal imager is very closely related to optics. Do note how the definition has zero mention of glass or any specific light spectrum. It only mentions light.
Brittanica specifically mentions how modern optical science now deals with light in the entire electromagnetic spectrum. This ranges from radio waves, microwaves, X-ray waves, IR light, ultraviolet light and visible light. Again, no specific mention of glass for modern optical science.
You are; once again, proven incorrect.
Perhaps if this discussion ocurred in the 12th century when optics solely referred to visible light, your definition would be correct. However; we are in the 21st century, and optics refers to the entire electromagnetic spectrum.
Thanks for proving my post’s point correct.
A thermal imager isn’t the entire system, it’s the imager… the sensor array.
And thermal imagers have their own optics to feed them the photons.
Most obvious of this is T-80U:
Other vehicles combine them into one housing.
1 Like
This is some advanced mental gymnastics you’re performing in order to think that my post proves anything you said is right.
Let’s go over what was said. You claim HSTV-L has superior “optics” to 2S38. While admitting the thermal imager is inferior.
I refute that, citing inferior zoom levels and inferior thermal imagers on HSTV-L. For vehicles relying on visible light spectrum for enemy detection, higher zoom is generally superior. For vehicles with thermal imagers, lower zoom is preferable only when coupled to a high definition imager.
Therefore, 2S38 is superior in optics, proving a contradiction in your original statement.
You claim a thermal imager is not an optic, citing a definition of optics that is literally an entire millennium out of date.
No mention of inferior maximum zoom on HSTV-L, and only a passing mention of lower minimum zoom for HSTV-L, ignoring how low resolution thermal imagers are detrimental when in low zoom mode. Higher thermal resolution is superior for low zoom battlefield scanning.
Once again, 2S38 proves superior in most comparisons. Your original contradiction remains.
I provide modern definition of optics, decisively proving that thermal imagers are in fact, optics.
Now, please do keep on topic of how 2S38 does have superior optics in both visible and invisible light spectrums when compared to HSTV-L. The only point the HSTV-L has in its corner for optics is a larger FoV for minimum zoom.
An advantage “on paper”, as thermal imagers are used for battlefield scanning for this BR. HSTV-L has to switch thermals off and zoom in order to better identify targets. 2S38 can just shoot after identifying a target in low zoom mode with high resolution thermals.
4 Likes
Dude, everything I stated from the initial post you quoted to present is identical.
Nothing has changed.
All I did was clarify things you had difficulties understanding; and you insult me for helping you…
And now you’re claiming 2024 is out of date…
High FOV is a huge advantage and one of the reasons Arietes struggle due to their low FOV.
Gen 2 thermals only helps for longer ranges, which 2S38 doesn’t do against armor, otherwise it’s for air targeting which its BR is already higher than its 9.3 anti-air capabilities.
You are once again ignoring the point. I’ll ignore the victim complex for now, it is not relevant. Same with the mention of vehicles not relevant in this discussion.
Let’s go over this once again.
2S38 has 4.0x to 9.8x zoom and a generation 3 thermal imager. 19 degree FoV in low zoom mode.
HSTV-L has 2.0x to 8.0x zoom and a generation 1 thermal imager. 38 degree FoV in low zoom mode.
These are the facts.
For detection of targets on the battlefield in general, higher thermal resolution is superior. Point to 2S38.
For detection of targets without thermal imager use, higher FoV is superior. Point to HSTV-L.
For identification of targets in visible light wavelength, higher zoom is superior. Point to 2S38.
For identification of targets in high zoom, higher resolution is superior. Point to 2S38.
For detection of targets in high FoV mode while using thermal wavelength, higher resolution is preferable. Larger FoV with low resolution can provide false returns when looking at hot spots.
I’ll say this is a tie between the two vehicles, just for your sake.
1.5 points for HSTV-L, 3.5 points for 2S38 in comparison for optics. 2S38 is superior in comparison of optics. A contradiction in the original quote. “HSTV-L has superior optics”
Now, let’s go over your latest post.
2024 definition of optics, as I provided previously, deals in all light wavelengths. There is no mention of glass or mirrors. Brittanica and Merriam-Webster corroborate this.
Legacy (IE: before the discovery of invisible light) definition of optics, per Brittanica, deals solely with visible wavelengths. Once again, no mention of glass and mirrors.
You claimed optics only deals in visible light and specifically deals in glass and mirrors.
Your definition, per Brittanica, is out of date.
You claim low FoV for minimum zoom on C1 Ariete is a large reason behind the poor performance of the vehicle.
While this is irrelevant to this thread, the C1 has many more problems directly impacting in-game performance more than low FoV in minimum zoom. Low FoV doesn’t help, but it doesn’t hurt very much either.
3 Likes
Glad you agree with Webster’s definition now after claiming it was dated after citing it.
After all I claimed optics is the glass, the system which allows any light through to a desired point.
No mention of human visibility.
Oh, you imply that Webster is Brittanica and is wrong later in your post.
Dude, can you stay on one line of thought?
Is Webster correct like my posts state… Or is Webster wrong?
Reading comprehension is not one of your strong suits, is it? Please re-read the entire post, instead of just looking at the letters down the left side.
Merriam-Webster and Brittanica define ‘optics’ as science dealing with light in all wavelengths. This is the definition I cite.
Please re-read what your post claimed the definition of *optics’ was. Before applying a major edit, as is normal for you. In case you’re already done editing your post, you claimed optics (as defined by the dictionary) is only in reference to visible light wavelengths. Minor edit: you also claim thermal imagers are part of imagery, and not optics.
Brittanica states that prior to the discovery of invisible wavelengths of light, ‘optics’ solely referred to visible wavelengths of light. Important to note is the use of “prior”, to signify that this is an older definition and is no longer in use.
Thus, your post is using an outdated definition.
Then what’s the issue?
You literally agree with the definition of optics I’ve been using this entire time… Webster’s.
And then you claim I was using the wrong one after agreeing with Webster’s definition…
There are no edits to my posts outside me fixing my mistype of the zoom.
Where I hit 1 instead of 2 on the keyboard by accident and didn’t catch it.
That’s the exclusive edit of my posts.
Merriam-Webster defines optics as the science of light.
Light has many wavelengths. In the infra-red wavelength, objects that are warm emit infra-red light. Thermal imagers are capable of detecting the light in this wavelength.
You are not using Merriam-Webster’s definition.
Thermals as in the imager AKA sensor array, which I clarified in a future post.
And optics as in the Webster definition which you agree with and seemingly call me wrong on for using.
It should go up but, it wont go up. Gaijin is all about “lineups” and they will do anything to protect the 10.0 RU lineup and destroy every other nations lineup. The 2S38 is a very powerful tank and gajoobles excuse is their “stats” because its driven by mostly crayon eaters. Its also the top choice for bots and cheaters. However when played by a skilled player they can abuse it, especially in downtiers - and while any other nations vehicle that has players like that their tanks are sent to BR hell but the 2S38 stays.
If you think thats funny take a look at the Stormer HVM - a 10.3 SPAA. It has manually guided missiles that sometimes dont do anything to planes, phase through them and super janky IRST. It thinks tiny recon drones are the hottest things on the planet and struggles to lock hot afterburning jets oh and if you look up at one thats below a cloud - it simply cant lock them. Meanwhile the 2S38 at 10.0 gets excellent IRST with proxy rounds and is arguably a better SPAA.
1 Like
Gaijin isn’t about lineups. Not sure why you invented that idea.
Also proximity with a search radar exists at 8.7 and 9.0.
waow
I wouldnt say better optics considering the 2S38 does have better ther,ald
Did you forget about IRST and HE-VT?
Also LWS
4 Likes
SEP isnt the only MBT to have a prox round, plus an MBT barrel isnt nearly as effective as a light tank that has more range of movement.
Like what? what other SPAA have IRST. APFSDS and proximity shells at 8.7?
Neither have IRS, it’s IRT which doesn’t impact tank killing performance.
HE-VT doesn’t impact tank killing performance either.
LWS can help on maps like Euro Province, but that’s about it these days.
2S38 Should be moved to 10.7 in my opinion. Its way to broken when it gets undertiered against 9.3 tanks that arent armoured as much as 11.3 or 11.7 tanks that HSTL-V faces
And a lot 9.3 tanks dont have Thermals and planes/Helicopters dont have good ATGMs.
1 Like
“eRm aCtUallY iTs iRs nOt iRt”
You know what we are talking about, you’re just trying to be pedantic.
And?
Still a plus for 2S38
Finally got to have some battles in HSTVL.
HSTVL for 11.3 is flat out better than 2S38 is at 10.X. The ammo just works, and despite it being stock is still the fastest thing on the battlefield allowing me to get into ambush positions easily.
1 Like
A better question is why hasn’t the 2S38 been moved to the same BR as the Otomatic?