That looks wild lmao, but thankfully I’ve never encountered this issue in sim before. Seeing video evidence like this is really good.
My bad, missed the section name this thread is under, I was looking at everything tagged “air”.
Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesnt
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It just needs a little love and it could be great again.
So lemme get this straight: Gaijin adds entire lines of aircraft meant to attack primarily ground targets, the community hates when said aircraft target ground targets in GRB, and when said aircraft are used in sim, a mode which, by design, gives you PvE objectives, the players are supposed to be reported?
Also, yeah, I sure as heck love joining 11.0-11.7 or 11.3-12.0 matches while playing Russia and only having strike aircraft or Mig-23, against things like F-5E, F–4J, F-4S, A-10C, AV-8B, Tornado F.3, or Mirage F1, which have more missiles, more countermeasures, better missiles…
Just a few hours ago an A-10C was annoying me by bombing everything on an airfield, including people spawning in, my only option of a fighter was Mig-23M and… There was nothing I could do. Any radar lock led to a boatload of chaff being deployed, any R-60 launch led to a shipping container of flares, any attempt and getting in gun range was met with a 9M to the face
It’s the exact same for Germany, since in these brackets it also only gets strike craft and Mig-23, so my only option is to switch teams and play US planes… against who? The very same PvE players who you want to report, since a lot of the time the nations with all these viable fighters are put against teams which have no fighters or much inferior fighters
The PvE players being referred to arent the kind of player you are thinking about.
There are players who try to enforce PvE only lobbies using tactics like harrasment, TKing, report threats, etc to prevent people from PvPing. They especially get mad when killed.
You also have people who fly high and just suicide ram AFs or J-out after dropping weapons often referred to as Zombers.
Those players need to be reported. Someone actually using a strike aircraft like a Tornado, Jaguar or Buc (some of my most played aircraft) correctly and not engaging in either of the aforementioned tactics are perfectly fine within ASB, but should be prepared to deal with enemy players or engage in tactics that avoid them
Mig-23 is better than most of those or is a notably lower BR. Of course an 11.0/11.3 aircraft will struggle vs a 12.0 if it didnt, it would be 12.0. That being said, the Mig-23MLD should be 11.7. Its stupidly under BRed at the moment. I dont complain about the fighting the Mig-23M if i decided to take the Jaguar GR1 into a 10.0-11.0 match.
The Mig-23s control the 11.3 bracket entirely. All the “good” Bluefor 11.7 aircraft are strike aircraft that are overall weaker than the Mig-23ML/Mig-23MLD. Its not until 12.0 that Bluefor actually get fighters than can counter the Mig-23 with aircraft like the Tornado F3.
Try playing something like the Sea Harrier FRS1 at 11.3 against a Mig-23MLD also at 11.3.
I dont really ever play the 11.0-11.7 brackets because its just controlled by Redfor and there is little I can do against them.
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Okay, fair enough
In what exactly way is it better? Genuinely what makes it better than the planes I just listed? And how is MLD undertiered? It gets 2 okay SAHR missiles and 4 flare hungry R-60’s and 72 countermeasures.
Meanwhile Mirage F1C at 11.7 gets 2 all aspect IR missiles with IRCCM, 3 okay SAHR missiles, and 196 countermeasures. Swedish AJS37 at 11.3 gets 4 9Ls and 680 chaff and 48 flares, JA37D gets 2 basically Aim-7E-2 and 4 9L’s and 48 countermeasures
- Its faster that most other aircraft at that BR
- It has all-aspect IR missiles whilst being super-sonic. “equivalent” fighters like the F-4E and FGR2 have rear-aspect IR missiles
- R-24R are some of the best SARH missiles at that BR by not a small margin
- R-24Ts are very potent
- It has large calibre CMs when most have Standard.
- It turns better than most (but you need to use manual wing sweep)
- It has MTI when most dont even have that much at 11.3. Only the FGR2 and Viggen C at 11.3 have PD to match it. The F-4E and F-5E for example dont have either MTI or PD.
The Mig-23MLD is better equipped than pretty much everything else at that BR, the only aircraft that “can” fight it is the FGR2 which has to rely on PD radar + Skyflash DFs in hit and run attacks because it cannot fight it in a dogfight.
Mirage F-1C is tricky. It has to have Magic IIs because the french never had a non-IRCCM all-aspect missile like the R-60M or Aim-9L and it also has a decent CM count. But… Its radar is a bit poor. Its got an aweful RWR and its not that good in a turn fight. It also only has 2x IR Missiles which is less than most. The SARH I think are the weakest at that BR by far. It would get slaughtered at 12.0.
That… is some MASSIVE cherry picking and only covers half the story.
It CAN take 4x Aim-9Ls, but it would have no CMs at all. To take CMs with 1-2 BOZ pod it would loose 1-2x Aim-9Ls and if it also wanted to take any bombs then it would have to loose some the 9Ls or the BOZ pods or a mix.
It has 4 main hard points. Those hardpoints have the 9Ls, the BOZ pods and the A2G loadout. It is arguably much much weaker than something like the Tornado WTD61 which has 2x Aim-9L + 2x BOZ pods + 12x 1k bombs also at 11.3.
JA37D is half decent, but I would still overall consider it weaker to the Mig-23MLD these days. 9Ls are just as flare hungry as the R-60M and the Skyflash DFs really arent that good, easily beaten by the R-24R.
VIggen D has a good radar, but thats about it and doesnt turn fight anywhere near as good as it use to.
Also, France and Sweden appear on Redfor just as often as they appear on Bluefor. So pick your lobbies if you dont like fighting them.
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Half of these barely matter when many things it can see can just chaff or flare anything the Mig-23 can throw at them, and it’s nice that it gets large caliber CMs, but it barely matters when regular ones also do the job
I’ll admit that I screwed up and didn’t look at the loadout screen correctly
Personal experience tells me they aren’t as flare hungry, but even assuming they are- they also get a much better range so you don’t have to get as close, so enemy is less likely to see you before you get within missile range, and in a missile joust he gets to fire first
Also I don’t know why WT community puts such a high importance on dogfight performance at BRs where dogfights are pretty much optional. Even at low tiers turn fighting is entirely optional and there’s several planes that have a disadvantage in dogfights, and the usual response is “just B&Z and pick your targets”, not “that plane must go to a lower BR”. Heck, in a guns only dogfight a WW2 fighter is likely to win against a modern jet, even more likely against a cold war era jet, purely because it can get guns on you before you can
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And how is that anything different to the FGR2s Aim-9Gs or Skyflash DFs being flared and chaffed by the Mig-23MLD? LCMs though are about 5.5x more effective. Meaning its MUCH easier to defeat any threat,
Better range, yes. Flare resistance. My experience is that they are 1 flare defeat 99% of the time .Especially against something dropping LCMs
If IR missiles are just defeated by flaring and SARH missiles are just defeated by multipathing. Then the only way you can kill something is by putting your guns on the target. Which usually requires some dogfighting. Yes you could just BnZ at that BR. and its how I would recommend you just hard counter the A-10C. But the ability to turn well to get into what is essentially a WW2 style dogfight is important to consider
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Airspawn campers? Mate you have 4 airstrips.
Quite literally teleport to one of the other 3.
Everything you wrote was complaints & rants.
Generally speaking, if you don’t have a VR headset, you will be at a disadvantage. Since this was meant for it, it’s not a requirement but it makes life easier.
It’s the fastest plane well above its own BR as well.
The Mig-23ML/MLA have a worse RWR.
MTI doesn’t do much when it only works under 1500m, and only when the nose is pointed down. It’s still useful, but it isn’t some major advantage in my opinion.
Their main advantage is range, but the R-60Ms are better at a close range.
However, the Mig-23 should go up.
As for the Mirage F1C, I just find it quite annoying to deal with and face. They have an acceptable radar and 2 very good IR missiles, and a ton of CMs.
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The difference is usually in the CM count, and the ratio of CMs on the target aircraft to the amount of missiles the firing aircraft has.
I’ve rarely had that happen, but fair, let’s assume it’s only because people kept popping flares even after the missile had already lost lock. On the other hand I have video footage of an R-60MK losing lock in a rear aspect 1.5km shot without a single flare from the target (or at least no visible flare)
True, but still more than aircraft like the F-4E, F-5E or FRS1 have.
In an 11.3 bracket. Only the FGR2/FG1 with its (imo, slightly dodgy) PD radar or the Viggen C with its half decent radar have better. And the Viggen C could be on the same team as the Mig-23 just as often as its against. (more often from my experience).
If it were to move up to 11.7, the only extra thing it might face is the Mirage F1C or JA37D. Which could also be on its team. The good radars arent until 12.0 for most
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Which the Mig-23MLD has 72 LCMs and the average is 60 CMs. The only other supersonic fighter at 11.3 with “more” is FGR2 which has 60 CMs and 30 LCMs.
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Which you can easily expand by mixing the CMs in the CM pod, which for some reason makes each pop alternate between 1 and 2 CMs per use, rather than only 2 per use. I can easily turn my 41 flares and 31 chaff into 33 flare 23 chaff uses, which is more than most other aircraft.
I just wish other planes had similar features, and that stuff like that was consistent between aircraft.
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No.
The issue is not with people playing e.g. bombers and attackers and completing their missions, avoiding to get shot down (which is wise…).
The issue is with those people who claim PvE with the intent that noone is allowed to touch them, and if they do, those “PvP monsters” get harrassed, be that in the game or in chat.
I don’t know why people so adamantly refuse to see the difference.
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it soppose to be realistic plane disappear never seen that happen before in real life
You are saying it like PvE players come to PvP rooms demanding this room must turn into PvE one.
Again, there are farmers and there are players who want to focus on hunting ground units (and completing PvE tasks in general). These are different type of PvE players. Usually you cannot focus completely on hunting ground units within intensive PvP session, especially if you are not pro player. So, these players try to avoid PvP rooms.
But some PvP players deliberately go into PvE rooms to “punish” PvE players.
I have been telling this for long time that assault planes deserve a separate mode with interesting tasks and storyline.
The disbalance between nations + disbalance between fighter and assault planes + disbalance in players’ skills (which is increased in sim mode compared with other modes) results in appearance of players who just want to play the game and get some reward, not to win the competetion.
That is why I create my own missions.
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I like sim pve farming.
Please go kill and send back to the hangar all these dumbs that try to apply imaginary rules to you.
These people need to be banned from the games, it’s organised cheating.
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There are no PvE rooms in Sim EC.
Air Assault, Ground Assault and Helicopter PvE are the only PvE game modes in WT atm.
Why a separate mode? (I’m with you on interesting tasks etc, but not only for attackers, but Sim in general, which has a lot of room for improvement…)
Note: I myself am a mudmover pilot, flying attackers and bombers mostly, and I have zero issue with being prey to other mudmovers engaging me or fighters hunting for me. Adds spice and challenge.
Fair enough. If one wants zero multiplayer interaction, there’s always this option.
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