I asked SOURCES. S O U R C E S.
Unfortunately Japanese never recorded penetration at 60 degrees for their guns hence why it has to be calculated instead but here
Tokku Kou AP at 850m/s could penetrate 200mm of Cast Steel. This is source from Japanese archives.
If we use British 2 pounder AP as reference to calculated penetration against Rolled Homogeneous armour
If 2 pounder AP can defeat 90mm RHA at 792m/s
Tokku Kou AP can defeat
185mm RHA
Or according to the archive
200mm of Cast Steel
Still not what i was asking for
It does prove something…
Your crappy Panzer IV H has 143mm pen whilst Chi-To has 185mm penetration power
More than Tiger 1 and basically on par with Panther
Panther shoots 6.8kg APCBC shell which has like
5.8kg penetrator at 935m/s
Chi-To shoots 6.615kg AP shell which has
~6.6kg penetrator at 850m/s
Panzer IV H shoots 6.8kg APCBC shell which has like
5.8kg penetrator at 770m/s
If you still think that Chi-To in game having roughly same penetration as Panzer IV is historically accurate then there’s no hope for you
Thanks for admitting that you pull numbers out of your ass.
So 185 or 161?
I asked for the source about the soviet AP modifiers, and you keep strawmening and responding to things i did not ask.
Why is it so hard to be honest?
Also you did not prove your “3 K/D” with the Chi-To, nor did you make it clear about your account.
161mm is after the AP round deforms at 0 degrees because it lacks piercing cap
At 60 degrees where it doesn’t suffer from deforming, it’s 60 degree penetration is equivalent to having the full 185 at 0 degrees.
How much it deforms depends on the steel quality. If it was US steel quality it would still defeat 174mm after deforming
If it is accurate, than okay, it has whatever amount of penetration at that moment you think it has, i don’t give a crap.
As i said, but sadly your tiny wehraboo brain can’t take in, penetration and damage does not really matter, if the platform the gun is on a piece of crap. You talk about how much armor the Chi-To has, but guess fucking what?!
It would only matter if the tank is at lower BR, but you want it moved up, where anything even looking the tank’s general direction will lolpen it EVERYWHERE.
You know, the M4 sherman with the 76mm gun is at 5.3, while (according to you) it has no armor (and everything else you said an i am too lazy to look it back), yet it is at the same BR as you think the Chi-Ri should be.
Do you know why?
Because the platform it is on is good, despite the gun being worse than the Chi-To/Ri’s gun.
You want another example?
T-44. It sits at 6.7 with the gun of a 5.7 tank, with bad pen.
Why? Because it is as fast as a light tank and has better armor than most of the heavy tanks at the same BR.
Let’s just at least agree on this
They should fix all the AP rounds in the game.
If the Chi-To still suffers with proper penetration and reload speed at its BR, then it can go down in BR.
Is that agreeable?
I just think that avoiding the issue, lowering Chi-To BR and creating huge BR gaps should not be the first option on the table
Also
US 75mm APCBC should only penetrate
88mm @ 100m
US 76mm APCBC should only penetrate
125mm @ 100m
[146 in game]
But they can’t.
There are/will be guns with very little info on them, so there will always be a crybaby that wan’t that extra 2mm more pen according to some sekrit documents.
And then there are the modern stuff, that is classified. So if they were to use real data, even more idiots would leak classified documents, and Gaijin does not want that.
There already are, so this does not really make sense.
This is pretty much for the germans too, yet you don’t cry about it.
And last time i will attempt to get it into your tiny head.
Penetration is not everything.
Please write it down to a paper 200 times, you might understand it then.
Gaijin doesn’t use sources anymore
They use a calculator to calculate AP rounds equally all across the board.
Issue is the AP calculator does not give matching results for any of the AP rounds in the game, they all equally underperform severely relative to their sources.
I calculate them correctly and my results always match the sources or give very close results
That’s what i am saying dude.
Until the penetration gets fixed for Chi-To then sure decrease the BR but I just hate the fact it’s the first option.
Anyways as long as you understand the real life performance of the gun is much better than the crap shown in the game, then it’s ok
Next time you play Chi-To and you shoot T-34 1940 upper plate at 100 meters and it bounces. You have every right to scream Effing BS cuz that’s equivalent to playing panther tank and bouncing of T-34 1940 upper plate at 100m
Okay. Let me try this.
The pen difference between the stock and fully upgraded shell on the Churchill 3 is roughly the same as on the real vs ingame Chi-To.
But it does not fucking matter which one i am using in the Ch 3, because the tank itself in a piece of crap.
Similar with the Chi-To/Ri.
The gun might be good (and could be even better), but it is huge as a fucking communist blockhouse with 0 armor at the BR it sits now, but you want it moved up, where it will not matter at all.
Just answer me, can you finally understand this, or you are just clinically braindead?
Not long ago my SU-152 did nothing to the side of a Chi-Nu, so reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee japanese bias.
Ah the 6 pounders, those are underperforming even more lol.
As for Churchill III that thing is over tiered. Is a slow heavy tank and its redeeming feature should be armour.
Instead you’re at 4.3 with 89mm of armour facing a German medium tank at 3.7 with 80mm armour and 145mm penetration
Finally something we can agree on.
Tho my problem isn’t the german tanks, they are just bad players in them.
While these arguments are valid, there can be a case made for the Ho-Ri Production sitting higher than the Jagdtiger or Ferdinand due to mobility, and the Jagdpanther sits too low anyways. As opposed to the German things, a better comparison would be vehicles like the Soviet Object 268(6.7), the French AMX-50 Foch(7.3), the American T28(6.3)/T95(7.0), and the British Tortoise(6.7).
The conclusion is at the very bottom so you can just skip the middle part if you’re not interested in comparisons.
As it stands right now, the Obj.268(6.7) is just better than the Ho-Ri Production in basically every way, with a better gun, similar mobility, better armor layout(thickness and placement), roof dshka, better reverse, with the only lacking part in reload due to the 152mm gun on it. And it sits at 6.7.
The AMX-50 Foch(7.3) is funnily enough closer to the Ho-Ri in performance, since while it shares a similarly untouchable sloped UFP they both have large weakspots, although I’d argue the Foch has an easier-hit weakspot that can’t really be hidden or juked via wiggling. Foch also has better speed and a better gun, although the 120mm solid shot is well, solid shot so it has better pen but arguably worst post-pen. However, its generally considered to kind of be underperforming at 7.3, from what I can tell.
T28(6.3)/T95(7.0) is harder to compare, since they’re so slow. Both of them have far better frontal armor, and side/rear in the case of the T95, a better gun with similar reload and post-pen but better pen, and roof .50cals, but far less mobility. So, I’d say they’re abuot equal, the T95 to the Ho-Ri Prod and the T28 to the Proto, although the Ho-Ri in both cases is a far easier nut to crack.
The British Tortoise(6.7), while being a slightly underperforming 6.7, is still a good bit better than the Ho-Ri Prototype due to having more armor (152mm all-around vs Proto’s 120 cheek/150 center/250 mantlet and 75mm LFP) and an arguably better gun with far better pen but debatably worse post-pen. If its kind of bad at 6.7, one only needs to imagine how the Ho-Ri Proto, also at 6.7, does with worse firepower and armor.
Conclusion: The Ho-Ri Production(along with the AMX-50 Foch imo) probably should drop down to 7.0, since thats where the vehicles most similar to it tend to be. The Ho-Ri Prototype should go back to 6.3. It was fine there, it was no Ferdinand since even Sherman 76mms and T-34-85 85mms can pen that 120mm cheek plate frontally. Plus, the T28 with a similar premium status and being debatably better is also at 6.3 and does fine.
This doesn’t even consider things like the T32, IS-3, IS-4M, Maus, T-54/55, and the aforementioned German TDs which the Ho-Ri can barely, or just can’t touch in a frontal engagement.
Some of the data there doesn’t add up. There’s no way the M358 can hit 395mm of pen.
