Also
US 75mm APCBC should only penetrate
88mm @ 100m
US 76mm APCBC should only penetrate
125mm @ 100m
[146 in game]
But they can’t.
There are/will be guns with very little info on them, so there will always be a crybaby that wan’t that extra 2mm more pen according to some sekrit documents.
And then there are the modern stuff, that is classified. So if they were to use real data, even more idiots would leak classified documents, and Gaijin does not want that.
There already are, so this does not really make sense.
This is pretty much for the germans too, yet you don’t cry about it.
And last time i will attempt to get it into your tiny head.
Penetration is not everything.
Please write it down to a paper 200 times, you might understand it then.
Gaijin doesn’t use sources anymore
They use a calculator to calculate AP rounds equally all across the board.
Issue is the AP calculator does not give matching results for any of the AP rounds in the game, they all equally underperform severely relative to their sources.
I calculate them correctly and my results always match the sources or give very close results
That’s what i am saying dude.
Until the penetration gets fixed for Chi-To then sure decrease the BR but I just hate the fact it’s the first option.
Anyways as long as you understand the real life performance of the gun is much better than the crap shown in the game, then it’s ok
Next time you play Chi-To and you shoot T-34 1940 upper plate at 100 meters and it bounces. You have every right to scream Effing BS cuz that’s equivalent to playing panther tank and bouncing of T-34 1940 upper plate at 100m
Okay. Let me try this.
The pen difference between the stock and fully upgraded shell on the Churchill 3 is roughly the same as on the real vs ingame Chi-To.
But it does not fucking matter which one i am using in the Ch 3, because the tank itself in a piece of crap.
Similar with the Chi-To/Ri.
The gun might be good (and could be even better), but it is huge as a fucking communist blockhouse with 0 armor at the BR it sits now, but you want it moved up, where it will not matter at all.
Just answer me, can you finally understand this, or you are just clinically braindead?
Not long ago my SU-152 did nothing to the side of a Chi-Nu, so reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee japanese bias.
Ah the 6 pounders, those are underperforming even more lol.
As for Churchill III that thing is over tiered. Is a slow heavy tank and its redeeming feature should be armour.
Instead you’re at 4.3 with 89mm of armour facing a German medium tank at 3.7 with 80mm armour and 145mm penetration
Finally something we can agree on.
Tho my problem isn’t the german tanks, they are just bad players in them.
While these arguments are valid, there can be a case made for the Ho-Ri Production sitting higher than the Jagdtiger or Ferdinand due to mobility, and the Jagdpanther sits too low anyways. As opposed to the German things, a better comparison would be vehicles like the Soviet Object 268(6.7), the French AMX-50 Foch(7.3), the American T28(6.3)/T95(7.0), and the British Tortoise(6.7).
The conclusion is at the very bottom so you can just skip the middle part if you’re not interested in comparisons.
As it stands right now, the Obj.268(6.7) is just better than the Ho-Ri Production in basically every way, with a better gun, similar mobility, better armor layout(thickness and placement), roof dshka, better reverse, with the only lacking part in reload due to the 152mm gun on it. And it sits at 6.7.
The AMX-50 Foch(7.3) is funnily enough closer to the Ho-Ri in performance, since while it shares a similarly untouchable sloped UFP they both have large weakspots, although I’d argue the Foch has an easier-hit weakspot that can’t really be hidden or juked via wiggling. Foch also has better speed and a better gun, although the 120mm solid shot is well, solid shot so it has better pen but arguably worst post-pen. However, its generally considered to kind of be underperforming at 7.3, from what I can tell.
T28(6.3)/T95(7.0) is harder to compare, since they’re so slow. Both of them have far better frontal armor, and side/rear in the case of the T95, a better gun with similar reload and post-pen but better pen, and roof .50cals, but far less mobility. So, I’d say they’re abuot equal, the T95 to the Ho-Ri Prod and the T28 to the Proto, although the Ho-Ri in both cases is a far easier nut to crack.
The British Tortoise(6.7), while being a slightly underperforming 6.7, is still a good bit better than the Ho-Ri Prototype due to having more armor (152mm all-around vs Proto’s 120 cheek/150 center/250 mantlet and 75mm LFP) and an arguably better gun with far better pen but debatably worse post-pen. If its kind of bad at 6.7, one only needs to imagine how the Ho-Ri Proto, also at 6.7, does with worse firepower and armor.
Conclusion: The Ho-Ri Production(along with the AMX-50 Foch imo) probably should drop down to 7.0, since thats where the vehicles most similar to it tend to be. The Ho-Ri Prototype should go back to 6.3. It was fine there, it was no Ferdinand since even Sherman 76mms and T-34-85 85mms can pen that 120mm cheek plate frontally. Plus, the T28 with a similar premium status and being debatably better is also at 6.3 and does fine.
This doesn’t even consider things like the T32, IS-3, IS-4M, Maus, T-54/55, and the aforementioned German TDs which the Ho-Ri can barely, or just can’t touch in a frontal engagement.
Some of the data there doesn’t add up. There’s no way the M358 can hit 395mm of pen.
M358 APBC if it didnt deform has enough power to defeat 371mm RHA
It should be unsurprising why it could achieve 135mm at 60 degrees of penetration
The guy just pulls numbers out of his ass.
One time the pen should be 161mm, but other times 180, and so on.
This guy needs to chill out.
120mm M358 APBC
4.3in at 2000 yards at 60 degrees
That’s 109mm at 1828m at 60 degrees
AP Slope Modifiers from WWII Ballistics: Armour and Gunnery
T/D Ratio = Thickness divided by Shell Diameter
109mm / 120mm = 0.91 T/D ratio
AP Slope Modifier at 0.91 T/D ratio at 60 degrees
That’s 2.65
109 x 2.65 = 289mm
120mm AP shell needs 289mm pen at 0 degrees
To penetrate 109mm at 60 degrees
So yes this round could penetrate well over 300mm
Cuz that’s 289mm at 1828 meters
But since the 0 value is calculated from 60 degrees, an angle at which non capped AP shells do not deform, the 0 value represents the M358 penetration of the round if didn’t deform at 0 degrees either
Oh and yes you probably have noticed the experimental APDS round for M103 as well in the source.
495mm @ 1000 yards.
You sent sources for like 10% of your claims, so it is still not very good.
I know, and it matches the calculator suggestion I’ve made.
Thats cuz I’m using 2 pounder AP as reference
40mm AP Round
Penetrator: 2lb 6oz 3dr weight (1.08kg)
Velocity: 2600ft/s (792m/s)
Penetration: 90mm
This is 2 Pounder AP penetration at 0 degrees when the round doesn’t deform and I use it as reference to calculate other AP rounds penetrations if they didn’t deform.
I use 57mm M70 AP. 2.85 kg at 899 m/s with about 141mm of pen. That puts the 2 pounder at 86mm. About 4% difference, so the results should be similar. That still doesn’t explain M358 reaching 395mm. It’s just not possible.
The 105mm Type 2 is different, since it’s an uncapped APHE. If you use Soviet APHE as a reference, the Type 2 would be around 215mm at 1000 meters per second.
I never wrote 395
