Daly reminder that Japanese M36 looks like the M36B2 except it’s based off an actual M36 (M10A1 conversion) instead of a converted M10.
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With the HEATFS? No guarantee kills there, the way HEATFS performs.
Thats truth
Well Pershings weakspots are always visible as it is his cheeks and commander`s, you either entirely hidden or show them
well i mean
tho the turret is indeed much weaker
Funnily enough, the 6.7 versions are better protected
So its still like not 100% sure way…
but is this one really “more common”?
They also have different turret and i believe mantlet tho
Thats actually crazy. as i remember the B1 was 6.3, no? How did they end up at 5.7 with HEATFSes…
Arguments?
That isnt required tho. M51 does that pretty well with early HEATs, par those tanks have better velocity even. I myself play APHE + several HEATs for super heavies like Tiger 2.
i’ve been melted in an instant in all these, and M53/59 is really common since a lot just sit around waiting for planes
Well as i can see it can hardly pen your fronts?
tho there is a major weakspot that CAN and WILL be hit xD
and the damage is a bit random tho
Weak armor and open-top. HE to the mg up top and it’s dead.
m51 struggles to get kills - the HEATFS post-pen is quite poor.
Of course the crappy crew they have to start with probably skews the results somewhat.
Honest question - given its just a Sherman, what would an appropriate BR for the thing even be if HEAT postpen were ever un-nerfed to the appropriate postpen spall angle? It’s got the awkward combination of average mobility, fast reload, ability to penetrate anything it could conceivably meet, and finally no armor to speak of (even barely anything against SPAAGs).
Ah but its now 6.3 and it has pretty decent turret armor. And also the damage is random, not poor. I had many crew oneshots to Tigers and Panthers with it.
well Hellcat is also weak armor and open top but its 6.0 with lesser protection and weaker cannon. And i firmly believe that Super Hellcat is just a teeny tiny bit more mobile than M36 base model.
I’d say 6.0 - which is what it was when I first started playing it. Not sure why Gaijin pushed it to 6.3
I find it incredible that you call 76/51/51 “pretty decent turret armor” at BR 6.3.
Seems to be the same turret as the M4A1, which is BR 3.7
The Comet - at BR 5.3 has better turret armor.
M51 should be 6.0 in both arcade and RGB. It’s overtiered.
The Hellcat in Arcade is 5.3. Guess why it’s 2 steps higher in RGB - it’s small size and mobility make it more effective in RGB. Same reason the Tiger 2 H is lower in BR in RGB - large size and slow.
You’d actually drop it lower even if the HEAT suddenly became reliably potent enough to two or even frontally one-tap most things from the spall cone? I find that surprising. Is it the lack of armor paired with okay mobility at the best of times that’s your main reason?
Actually missed the unerfed part…
But problem is, it’s so one-dimensional.
- great pen (and possibly better damage - will never = APHE)
- poor gun handling
- poor armor for a medium tank at that BR
- moderate to poor mobility
- get no APHE - relies solely on heat so it’s extremely map dependent
IF heatfs was improved it should go no higher than current BR - 6.3
I have my doubts Gaijin will change that, and it should drop to 6.0 in the menatime.
We’ve got many other one-dimensional vehicles in the game though. But depending on how much HEAT would get rebuffed, I could see it rising substantially.
At minimum it should be dealing a 45-degree-wide spall cone and thus be comparably effective in postpen to solid AP from equivalent-sized guns, where it would reliably one- or two-tap anything it penetrates (which 400mm pen means basically everything, every six seconds).
At maximum it should cause an overpressure effect from the jet itself and just one-tap anything that lacks ERA, composite plating of sufficient thickness, and to a lesser extent both NBC sealing or active protection systems detonating rounds harmlessly far away.
Thus I’d like to hear your thoughts in both scenarios. Because in my mind with the former it would go up to 6.7, and the latter probably 7.3 minimum. Note I would of course expect that a true HEAT rebuff would demand mass-uptiering of everything 8.0+ to create room to properly space things out now that WW2 armor monsters are no longer compatible with anything but the clumsiest HEAT.
It’s a slow tank with poor gun handling and weak armore.
What at 7.3 would you compare it to?
I suppose something like an M50 Ontos or T114 BAT or Type 60 SPRG - similarly glassy but fast-reloading and now actually lethal to fight against.
All 3 have much better reload (or multiple guns) so I’m not sure how you can compare.
They have very little armor, but in RGB mobility seems to be way more important for ambush predators. All 3 are more mobile and much smaller than the m51. They actually have a reverse, which makes shoot-and-scoot a lot easier.
Fair enough I suppose - anything come to your mind that it would be remotely similar to once it has a truly working gun? Because those are about my main ideas other than the M36B2 which literally is a weird Sherman.
Not saying the ho ri production is worse overall but in terms of armour and possibly gun(gun is preference) the Ferdinand is better. The turret area armor of the ferd is 200mm sloped at a 20° angle equaling out at 215mm of armour, while the ho-ri production has two casemate plates at the front with the inner plate at 225mm and the outer plate at 200mm with both at a 5° angle. So with those numbers you can say that there overall casemate protection is ≈ equal.
Now the next thing is the hull armors protection, and this is where the Ferdinand is better that the ho ri in more ways that one. First, the armor thickness; the Ferdinand has two 100mm plates layered on top of each other, one is in the upper hull at that is flat, and the other is at the upper lower section of the hull at a 30° angle, the last plate is the thinnest plate of 80° at a 45° angle. For the ho ri the upper plate is a 120mm plate at 70°, the lower plate is 120mm at 8°; and for both of these tanks if you pen the hull its almost a guarantee to cripple the tank, but the scale the tank gets crippled is different as the Ferdinand will lose two crew members, and the ho ri will loose the transmission and most likely the two crew members along with it; resulting in more time at a standstill. My next point is that the 70° plate on the ho ri is actually a bad thing as this plate will almost bounce every shot, and this is alot worse than just absorbing the shot as the barrel is the thing the round gets deflected into after hitting anywhere center mass. I can’t count how many times I’ve done this to ho ris and has had this happen to me. The next thing is over-pressure; the Ferdinand getting shot anywhere in the casemate with HE will not kill the crew, while the ho-ri gets obliterated pretty much every time.
There no point comparing the guns of either tank as it’s really up to preference, the 105mm does more damage opposed to the 88mm being more consistent.
The mobility of the ho ri is one of its biggest strengths, as it’s faster 6mph and out accelerates the Ferdinand almost double; but the Ferdinand has and astounding ability to reverse as fast as it can go forward, this paired with the transmission in the back, allows it to get out of situation more easily. Ok I’m bored of typing on my phone, the ho ri has 2° more depression and elevation.
The ho ri should either be at 7.0 or the Ferdinand at 7.0.
Edit: the prototypes br doesn’t even make sense dawg
well you can watch the numbers OR you can play it ingame and notice something interesting: it tanks shots pretty vell thanks for (probably) broken volumetrics
The 5.3 M36 is not THAT MUCH bigger and slower AND it wields much better cannon
And thats missing the MG on Hellcat
this is not a good way to compare them because the hanger automatically zooms in and out to keep the vehicles on screen
this isnt the ideal photo but as you can see M36 is significantly bigger than M18
