You dont need apcr to one tap hori proto in 5.7 tiger.
Basic aphe does the trick, and it does it in 1km range also. And it does it frontally
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Nobody… exept completly insane people. (me 👹)
Mostly yes but I did start with Japan back when it was added to WT.
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Few days ago had some fella crying how its impossible to pen Ho-ri prototype with 162 mm pen of T-44 even tho it has just 120 mm cheek armor 😆😆😆
Its really just issue of noobs not knowing where to shoot than Ho-ris being good or have good armor. Especially prototype is absolutely terrible compare to other 6.7 heavy tank destroyers. Jagtiger can pen it lit anywere at max range and it doesnt even have the mobility of “production” which is only reason for production to be this high.
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Dont worry that its OP as its being “removed”
Then you can only die from the fake HO- RI so that makes it all OK
“Production” may not be fully real but damn I made it look cool af 
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what’s that cool decal ?
Honestly I’m taking mine more in the ‘Japan Mobile’ and put body pillow all around the tank and on the LFP
My guy, a tiger 1 can’t see a ho ri production unless you’re running a 6.3 lineup, at which point why aren’t you running the three other tanks at that br, that can all frontally engage a ho-ri.
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I simply edited the camo lol
- also putting body pillows on tanks is heretical. Dont do that please :D
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I suppose it’s more on the hard to one hit kill rather than hard to kill. A Ho-Ri with minimal ammo load is effectively impossible to one hit kill anyway unless you have enough explosive filler and happen to be lucky that one of the frags hit the ammo down below…
If you are in a full uptier AND in a 4v1 I don’t think you’re winning that in any tank
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Actually no, if APCR did its correct (much-improved) postpen damage, it would be a serious and viable counter to heavy spam. Suddenly most WW2-era machines would be able to generally counter each other with hardly much issue.
IF they don’t slip a shell into that gap behind the front road wheel, yes you can in theory.
I will admit that is a pretty impressive game, my best from many years ago was 15 split evenly between an M18 and a P-47D, where me and one random playing Germans carried a dead team against Russians on Rhine. But I can already guess you were against German teams, right? If Russians are becoming as terribly blind as Germans though I can’t say I’d complain.
If a vehicle throws away all its mobility for armor, that armor needs to actually block damn near all incoming rounds. Otherwise there is no point to that armor, rendering it dead weight. If the thing is now a rolling brick that literally can’t move, then it kinda needs to be frontally immune to damn near everything it fights.
What I am wanting is to see everything else no longer “get outta jail free” by being able to barrel tap things nor having the heavy armor sit at BRs where everyone’s bread-&-butter rounds can casually ignore their thickest armor plate. But in exchange, the postpen of every currently underperforming shell class would be substantially increased so that all heavy armor loses their “fake survivability” and can no longer “tank multiple penetrating shots without dying.” Then armor becomes binary like it actually was - either it WORKS or it DOESN’T.
Now what should counter a heavy tank in my eyes?
- Derp gun artillery (example M44/M55, M109 & Co., FV4005, etc.) with their correctly lethal postpen damage output.
- Bunker-busting large-caliber AT guns (think Dicker Max, Sturer Emil, ISU-122, FV4004, etc.) which are huge and unwieldy but boast guns able to ignore any armor they encounter.
- CAS with many of its prior nerfs peeled back.
- APCR, early APDS, and select HEAT launchers that do not fly around the map at Mach 1 (examples would be the M36B2 and Israeli 105mm Shermans) with stabilizers with their correct post-penetration damage output. “Shell Shattered” would be retired as a game mechanic, as well, since it is not being equally applied to all rounds it was a problem with but is being used solely to neuter subcalibers yet again.
So no, under such a system you would still see plenty of other vehicles and not just “12 Maus vs 12 IS-4M.” You might initially see spam of them until the average player adapts, but after a couple days they would adapt mighty quickly. You would see people bring out the above classes of machines to thoroughly wipe out heavy spam within a week.
APCR was invented in 1940 (with the 3,7 cm Pzgr. Patr. 40) , but why it wasn’t widely used ? There are multiple reasons:
1- Tungsten core was usefull, but the mineral itself was scrace and extremely expensive. (less technology than today for high T° )
2- Loses velocity very quickly, amking it worst in long range engagement. This makes the precision worst as well as the penetration itself; it was very impressive at very close range, but not further.
3- Penetration at high angle was worst than most shells, partially from the reduced weight.
difference on the 75mm Panther A APCR vs APHE
You can add that the other high-pen shell was the APCBC, which is in big lines an APCR with a shell arund it that deform itself against the armor to reduce by a lot the possibility of ricichet.
4- Weak post-pen damages. Smaller diameter of hit, a core that is harder will destroy itself less in different shrapnel, plus it was compared to full diameter AP shell with an explosive warhead that exploded post pen, it was just way worst.
Some test in France shown that 17-pdr APCBC was somewhat superior to 76-mm HVAP T4 against the slopped armor.
It then said that the use of APCR was for heavy armored target with a vertical / moderately sloped heavy armor:
You can see here the difference of exit hole of an AP vs APCR, made on the hull of a Ferdianand. The big one is the AP, small one APCR. Notice the metal missing around the hole, it is the metal shrapnel made from the shell.
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Your Tiger 1 can pen the “turret” of the prototype from the front with PzGr 39.
If you are referring to Production, Tiger 1 should not meet it - even in a full uptier - unless you have a poorly organized garage.
They don’t.
Attribute that to skill or luck,
Yeah, i do have one: Japs have M46 equivalent at 6.3. And M46 equivalent with faster reload at 6.7.
Tho it has much less armor, it also has same ammunition and smaller profile.
It literally already does ingame?? Sure in an uptier you’re more vulnerable, but those tanks still tanks a buttload unless they face glass cannons that trades everything for firepower. Those bunkers are already quite braindead as long as you know what you’re doing, putting it in an even lower BR is literally just asking to be hand held.
Yep, I understand - full-caliber AP will produce a somewhat wider spall cone than a subcaliber round will.
But that doesn’t mean APCR/APDS are borderline useless shatter-prone needles that only act like linear nails, either.
From what I am gathering with some simple Google searching, solid AP should produce a dense spall cone 60 degrees wide (which the game under-represents somewhat), while APCR and early APDS should have spall cones closer to 40-45 degrees wide and not the narrow borderline blowdart patterns they have currently.
Not really. Also I am not even considering uptiers because outside specific maps why would anyone spawn a heavy as their first tank in an uptier when armor is the first thing to be rendered irrelevant in an uptier?
Instead what would change would be as follows.
Armor gets tiered where rounds simply don’t penetrate outside of actual bunker-busting derp guns or specific glass cannons armed with rounds common in higher ranks.
But in exchange all the currently “bad” ammo types get massively buffed in their postpen (APCR, APDS, HEATFS, and HESH) and in some cases also pen (APCR, HESH, and big HE), meaning nothing is “tanky” to eat multiple penetrating shots anymore. At best you might take two if you’re lucky and the guy aimed poorly.
Literally right now those super heavies are generally only able to reliably be defeated by flanking or using super high pen rounds. A Tiger II still have issues against IS-4M head on and that’s a full 1 BR difference already and the same goes for M26 facing Maus or most tanks trying to deal with the current Ho-Ri spam.
Not really, no. While flanking yes is a universal answer to anything, moreso if its slow, the “super high pen rounds” argument isn’t worth all that much given their currently anemic postpen damage.
APCR has underperformed in postpen for years and has globally incorrect pen below what it really was capable of. On top of that it shatters constantly.
APDS has underperformed in postpen for years, has actually correct pen outside of the autocannons which are artificially neutered, but shatters constantly.
HEATFS pens everything but the postpen does literally fuck all unless its a tin can the explosion component will overpressure.
Correct - even if APCR were rebuffed to its true performance, where long 88 would pen nearly 300mm and spall well on its APCR round almost what solid AP does currently, it would indeed be unable to frontally pen an IS-4M anywhere.
Actually not true. Because of America’s design philosophy of “Shut Up And Use More Tungsten,” M304 APCR would be more than sufficient to penetrate an unangled Maus. The real round penetrated 317mm point blank and due to the bigger core spalled quite substantially, equal to solid AP from the same gun. At best a Maus might take 3 hits to die, and that’s being generous.
Long 90mm T44 APCR from a Super Pershing or T32 would be even nastier, getting 373mm point blank pen. Nevermind M332 or M332A1 from postwar 90mm guns getting 390mm and 425mm, respectively.
US 105mm T29E3 APCR from the T29/28/95 would be nastier still at 381mm penetration. And the 105mm is outright missing an improved T29E4 APCR round with just shy of 450mm penetration.
US 120mm T17E1 APCR from the T34 would be overkill at 453mm penetration.
For the British, their penetration values would remain the same but their postpen would go from laughably bad to utterly terrifying. A 17-pdr would pen an unangled Maus turret face at close ranges. A Charioteer with nearly 400mm pen would laugh at it. And a Conway with over 500mm pen would make a Maus cease to exist in the same postal code.
All that dpends on the shell speed, caliber, componement and type of armor it goes trough.