I’m sorry but, there are no teamworks in the game unless you have decent skilled squadmates.
Let me give u an example,before F4E and mig23 added in game,good air realistic players always climb high to gain more altitude,because altitude can be changed to speed or angle of attack.But when f4e,mig23 come in game,more and more player fly lower and lower,because they kow,the higher they climb,the fox1 can much easier to aim and kill them.Players know how to adapt to different environments. If air propeller realistic historical mode be added in game,im pretty sure that plyers will know good teamwork will be esier lead them to victory than fly alone.And also,the mode economic system should be changed and time of one match should draw out ,because new historical place a higher value onteamwork,not “kill”,and players must be more patient and careful to choose tactics .
My point here is when put on a level playing field, let’s say an airfield start for both, the Spitfire has the ability to not allow the 109 to gain that altitude advantage. Sort of how the F-104 can dictate its battles because of its speed, the Spitfire can dictate its battles because it almost always force an altitude advantage.
Teamwork and patience will reduce the gap of airframe. Sounds right, but waiting for a teammate to get jumped on and then 3rd partying them isn’t skill, fighting another plane 1 on 1 is skill. Boom and zooming opponents that are in an active dogfight is not particularly skilled, choosing a singular target to prey on with a worse position (because you gained an advantageous position initially) that allows YOU to NOT get JUMPED on by other enemies and executing a successful initial attack run (resulting in a victory) against a target that is not preoccupied with a full on dogfight is much more skilled. Better yet, energy trapping an opponent in a way they have no chance to escape regardless of what they do is more skillful still. For someone claiming skill is vastly more important than airframe in props, your argument doesn’t pan out well when the most important advantage is altitude (energy) and altitude comes primarily from climb rate. Climb rate is determined by airframe, not by dogfighting skill.
What does this mean for historical matchmaking? The team with the better airframe will win. The most skilled Bf109K pilot can’t use the airframe’s advantages against a Spitfire if it cannot gain the advantage needed to do so. If you give the Bf109 an airspawn to compensate then you are throwing off the balance even more. If you MUST give an artificial advantage to one side to even the playing field then it wasn’t a good idea to make that matchup in the first place.
It would be great to take part in historical battles. This whole environment would not be spoiled by weak vehicles from the 1960s and 1970s fighting against vehicles designed in 1930 and newer.
They sure can. Easily, even, if the performance mismatch is as great as a P-51 and Me-163. The Me literally just needs to stay fast, and unless he commits to a stupid manuever the P-51s can’t touch him. If you want examples that are less extreme, watch DEFYN on Youtube, guy consisntently wins 1v4 or worse by playing to his strengths and abusing his enemies weaknesses, and that’s just with the BR spread the game gives you.
So you’re relying on perfect coordination with a full team of randoms with no voice coms in a free to play game with a rock bottom skill floor? And, as stated above, you’d need to be playing a full team of idiots in 163s, because even the most skilled group of P-51s can be easily rendered useless by an equally skilled group of 163s.
Might want to check a history book mate, Sweden was neutral and decidedly uninvaded by anyone during WW2. They stayed neutral by playing both sides against each other, so don’t use their allowance of German troop movements to Finland to argue they were occupied. They also provided substantial amounts of information to the Allies as well.
I see the chance for historical battles in well-tuned events…
I remember how the first weekend events came, years ago…
Battle Of Britain
- machine gun Spitfires and Hurricanes only
- Bf-109 only in E3, E4 and E7 came into the game much later
After a few games, no one wanted to play for Germany, because the players were playing dogfights near the ground and the Bf-E3 was significantly losing in horizontal rotation…
A lot of players still don’t take advantage of their machines and play near the ground in a small space … so the devs have to adjust it so that it is equally playable (win/lose) for both sides…
So Gaijin made it better by installing a version of F1 in the event, which historically did not participate in BoB, or the event phase of the battle, related to the days 8/11-15/1940, the Days of the Eagle. Historically, the F1 version only entered the battle in October 1940, and even then in small numbers.
So for standard, daily games, historical aircraft sets are nonsense, only a well-tuned event…
Other events were …
- air supremacy _P-38 vs. Me-410 - 410s received a terrible blow…
- MiG-9/15 vs. P-80, Thunderjet and then the Saber was added, otherwise the MiGs dominated…etc.
It is not so easy to correctly tune historical events…
To be fair that is nothing considering GFRB players tried to hijack this topic, muddying what the OP was wanting discussed.
That’s why i said historical mode need players have more patient and teamwork,if u fly and climb straight,of course u cant against spitfire,because spitfire has better climb rate,good at dogfight just like what u said.But if u leave away from battle zone and climb,be patient to gain altitude,109 still have chance against sptfires,just like what happened on allied 2017 and before.I have to admit that its diffcult for those who first playing air realistic,this mode is harder than existing air realistic.Thats why i suggest to"add" not “replace”.
I must admit that aircraft with better airframe are more likely to win, but I do not agree with your point on climb rate. Aircraft height depends on climb rate is right, but if u have enough patient any aircraft can climb very high. This is also the reason why I say patience is needed. Simply comparing climb rates is meaningless. Climbing rate X climb time to obtain altitude. If there is enough patience, everyone can achieve a very high altitude before engaging in battle (provided that the difference between the two aircraft is not particularly huge, such as an old biplane versus a high performance World War II fighter)
The discussion of this topic is main about aircraft,especially for propeller air realistic,but i think for ground realistic,its ok too,but the balance about ground realistic is not easy
And for weak side, think its reasonable to improve the killing experience and benefits of the weak side.That will cause more and more good skill player go play weak side
I don’t quite get why you don’t seem to understand that planes with higher climb rates can dictate fights in props, and if you aren’t in those planes in a historical matchup you are basically screwed. When a plane can outclimb yours, no amount of patience will allow you to gain position over them. They will be able to dictate the battle, and if you drop in altitude or try to run you will eventually lose your energy completely and be destroyed. Now imagine an entire team with airframes with better climb rate and the other team CANNOT gain a positional advantage and will get decimated. That is the symmetrical matchup that historical matchmaking causes, and is the exact reason it has never worked and will never work.
The only chance p51 can get me163 is head on.P51’s.50cal has betterfiring rate better trajectory than mg15120 or mk108,which means p51 can fire at a greater distance.If both of them are good pilots,the end of the battle,p51 can rely on the advantage of numbers,alternate cover and destory ground target just like what they usually do on WW2,but me163 can do nothing for them,consistent with history.Of course,what i say is absolutely ideal,real battle,10 battle maybe wont happen once,but i just want to let u know,its not absolute inferiority cant be resisted.
Yes,we cant fully restore history,but we can get as close to history as we can,at least distinguish axis vs allies,existing air realistic(propeller air realistic) US and Japan in same team,German and Russia in same team ,unbelievable
I reconize suitable overhead,but as i sy,american and japanese same team or german and russia same team i cant accept that.
The essence of what u said is better airframe can take the initiative in the battle,i know that.But if weak side patient climb has altitude advantage,convert height to speed and angle of attack,take what u said 109k vs spitfire LF IX,as we all know,spitfire LFIX has good power lower than 5000m,if 109k have enough patient,climb to 7000,engage spitfire at 5000,109k have convert 2000m dispersion to angle of attack and speed,boom&zoom,or vertical dogfight 109k have more energy(altitude+speed+angle of attack),109k still have chance to against spitfire,thats what i mean.
The Spitfire can continue to climb and not allow the BF109s to climb. Patience has nothing to do with it. One plane CAN PREVENT the other from reaching 7k. The race to altitude will be lost by the Bf109 and they will lose out to the Spitfires before they can “be patient”…
So,at the beginnig of the battle(match start),u should leave away from engage area,not fly and climb straight.The historical mode i imagine,all players know what they are doing,have enough patient.This is the kind of intrigue thats interesting ,not like existing mode experienced players kill noobs like kill a monkey.
So everyone side climbs and combat happens after 15 minutes when each plane reaches its max altitude? So what’s the point of playing this historical mode when there won’t be any combat? The sake of historical matchups? Gameplay being enjoyable is the key here and average players don’t want 15 minutes of climbing to then be killed by a superior airframe because historical matchmaking isn’t symmetrical. If you want that, go to custom battles. They have whole groups for this sort of stuff. Find one, because they aren’t going to add any historical modes when the ones they’ve already done flopped.
The pattern you mentioned actually occurred in 2017, 2018, and 2019，i dont think its boring,fight on 5000-7000 and then dogfight from 7000 to ground,both of u and enemy want to kill others,exicting and interesting