If you had simply watched one of the videos, you would have learnt that you do not need constant visuals on the target throughout the missile’s flight time.
Just the last part of guidance, which is somewhat similar to the amount of exposure you’d need with F&Fs.
The point is that F&Fs are safer but less effective in quite a lot of maps and situations
And I understand what you’re trying to point out here, but imagine instead of SACLOS missiles being Aim-7Ms, they are actually R-27ER, and the Fox 3 you’re shooting has only 500g of TNT (unreliable to kill something) and is even slower than the MICA-EMs and turn like Aim-9Ds.
Do you see now why laser/ beam-riding can be just as good as F&Fs, if not better in some circumstances?
Well to be fair the FnF agms have a big warhead which increases the likelihood of a one shot kill. Not to mention most of them also have IOG or Gps resulting greatly increases the chances of the agm hitting.
Your analogy is incorrect. Lets say an Aim-120 can only go 1/4 of it’s speed and has 1/4 of it’s explosive mass. Would you pick that over the Aim-7M? Yeah it’s nice to target multiple aicrafts at once without having a constant lock but what’s the point of that if you can’t hit the targets?
The role of a helicopter is to harass the enemy and assist the troops on the ground. Not spending the majority of your time rearming
And r27r can be better than an aim120. Does that mean that in most scenarios and in the general META we should take them over 120s? No. The use cases are much outweighed by the cons.
It’s a simple matter, a fnf missile is almost always preferable to one that keeps you exposed. Even if you have to pop up again to guide it in. That’s still longer exposure time.
IOG is cool and all. But if the guy changes direction it’s gone. You won’t know when you come back and then your missile over corrects. You’re making a case for the less effective method simply because you can.
I’d prefer hitting a target while playing peekabo. Shooting as many missiles I want and rearming never needing to check them again whether they hit or not is out of my hands and my only priority is finding targets shooting a few and going back to cover and then rearming.
I’m pretty sure most of these have the ability to take a SACLOS missile right? So why do people take the Pars or the Spike when they could take the hellfire or the HOT?
Helicopters constantly slinging 8/16 FnFs is basically harassment which will overload any AA that’s trying to shoot down the missiles.
Being able to fire off their salvo, rearm and do it again is incredibly powerful on certain maps.
I’m not even gonna engage with it, it’s bad bait.
If Slinging all your missiles faster, rearming and coming back up isn’t harassing the battle space? Then wtf is?
Except those Aim-120s, again? are much slower, only have 500g worth of TNT, and can barely maneouvre.
Look at the second video.
The target point the IOG was designated to was way off the actual target that I killed
The 5/6 sec lase at the end is enough for AKD-10s to change course and still perfectly hit its intended target.
And with those 8 spikes or PARS, we could say 2/3 get lost, 1/2 get intercepted, and then the other 5/3 have a 50% chance of not doing anything other than taking out the track, barrel, breech, or fuel tank…
just like that Fox 3 with only 18G pull, Mach 1.5 Top Speed, and 500g of TNT.
AKA kinda hit or miss and a pure gamble.
I’d say the only reliable F&F heli to do actual damage is the Israeli AH-60, as 16 is enough to take out at least 4/5 tanks, if not more if you’re lucky.
Too bad it doesn’t have a good gun, nor does it get any (good) AA missiles unless you sacrifice a / some spike pylon(s).
Yes, we can cherry pick kamov or good apache rounds.
But hard thruth is, I rather face any KAMOV, or APACHE instead IR missile slinging helo on top tier.
Helos what has to keep line of sight on firing, any aa player , proxyfuse player etc picks em up quite easily, especially when team has enough brains to ping helos…
Or should this Apache be nerfed after round like this against soviets…
If the aim120 could only go 1/4 of its speed, it would be chasing a jet faster than itself. It could be kinematically dodged by flying straight at the right angle to the missile.
Does a tank go 325 m/s minimum? Is it pulling multiple G’s?
No, I didn’t think so, bad comparison because in order to prove your “point,” you’ve made a scenario so unrealistic I didn’t want to even engage with it, but here I am.
My example was fine, didn’t need to be corrected and illustrates the point I’m making perfectly.
An Aim-120 going 1/4 it’s speed can easily be notched and dodged.
You are nitpicking and are missing the point of that example. It is point out how flawed your statement is.
What I was hoping you would take away from that is flight characteristics matters just as much as guidance type. Do you think the Mavericks is better than the KH-38ML? If you think so, then I seriously question your experience in CAS.
Mavericks being launched around 8km at 1km alt will take approximately 30 seconds. Guess how long it take the KH-38ML? 15 seconds. Keep in mind these are against stationary targets with no clutter (dead tank, trees etc)
So no, a tank cannot out go 325m/s and cannot pull multiple Gs but it sure can hide (smoke, trees, etc), distract (having it lock onto a dead tank), be intercepted, or be dead by the time the agm reaches it. Speed matters which is why KH-38ML is better than most FnF agms out there.
that was literally the entire point. It gives a lot of breathing room for someone to react. Now if a spike can had the same engine as the Vikhrs, it’ll be a different story
How are you supposed to predict when you’ve been locked by an AGM? Them missing is most regularly dumb luck in the part of the tank, unless they’re an AA and are paying attention to the air.
But it would be more honest to admit that FnF are inherently more valuable than Vikhrs in a larger game sense. Yes the Vikhr is a superior missile, but the gameplay mechanic of FnF is more valuable than manually guided missiles.
Well that’s a bit rich, pot, I have a kettle you should meet.
Your example was bad, and didn’t show a flaw in anything other than your bad example. It took 2 seconds to show you why.
Consider me out dude, you started comparing fnf’s to each other in a discussion about SACLOS vs FNF. Compare 38mts and 65’s all you want. Make your own thread next time. Maybe you’ll stay on topic.
This is just a waste of time and I won’t contribute any further.
You can’t predict if someone launches a spike initially but it’s something not to be scared of. FnF Agms, have weak post pen damage, it will usually disable your take (breach, engine, etc) but not take it out. It gives you more than enough time to smoke, repair and get into cover (including hiding behind dead tanks).
I do agree FnF has the biggest potential but we haven’t reached that yet. Other than a more powerful agm (speed, pen, damage), datalink needs be expanded upon for it to be extremely deadly.
Sorry if I wasn’t clear, I meant FnF AGMs as in the Maverick or KH-38
Gotcha, you might be able to survive against a mavericks because but it depends what tank you’re in and where it hits you.
KH-38 on the other hand, it’s pretty much a death sentence
Did you skim through what I said or did you actually read it. I’m talking about the KH-38ML, you know… a SALH agm…
I read it as 38mt. My bad.
I mostly stopped after that mistake.
You don’t have to doubt any CAS abilities. I’m not great at it I have like 2 days in fighter time total I think.
Regardless, yes AGM65D is better and something tells me the kills you have on your SU34 weren’t from you taking the 38MLs if you had a choice between them and MT’s. Same with everyone else and I wonder why that would be.
Additionally, As a CAS plane in contested air space, firing your munition and immediately being able to defend or pursue another target is objectively better than having to keep lasing a single target which you may never get to laze again if you’re engaged in a2a combat. Especially if your goal is to harass gameplay.
Without a doubt the maverick fire and forget is better than a SALH.
Try seeing the big picture, instead of in a vacuum.
Hell no. All the helicopters are pretty bad apart from FNF, and the mi-28NM
Any spaa in the game can reliably counter any helicopter other than Tiger UHT spam.
The one helicopter I can say that should go down in br is the Mi-24D, having falangas and only being marginally better than the Mi-24a
Mi-24D 8.7 → 8.3
Ah, CAS helis discuss, did I miss something? After Gaijin added plenty of 10.3 SPAA I have never played them, these SPAAs is almost make helis especially for Hellfire users can’t play anymore
