Helicopter's max BR needs to be increased

[RavenGuardMarine]

@Commodus6504

It feels like half the Russian or American team consists of jets that are constantly circling over the helifields.

Of course we(all nations, not just US/RU) are it’s my job as a CAS/CAP player, to hit the ground and keep the sky clear. Helicopters, of the FNF type can only reasonably be targeted by a jet.

They can be harassed and targeted by AA in terms of SACLOS helis, but AA is of no real concern to a FNF heli. Which puts that jobs squarely on the jets plate. If we let you sit, you can easily flop the field to your advantage.

Especially since gaijin refuses to make rotors return radar hits you can target helis effectively from a distance like reality, it leaves one course of action. Constant passes over the Pad with Mk1 eyeballs to see if you’re there.

@UniqueScorpions

Again, odd you don’t list the Adats, or the Swedish spaa as being good. Adats is an anti tank king.

If you’re spawn trapped, sure.

[HondaCivici]

@MotorolaCRO

I get the Su-34, but why Su-39 ?

If there were SPAA that are like the 2S6 at 11.0ish, it wouldn’t be much of an issue. Because there isn’t, it can easily cause havoc.

This doesn’t mean it’s useless in uptiers. The Kh-29TE are extremely good at taking out ADATS, ITOs, Flakrad, etc.

[MotorolaCRO]

@HondaCivici

If there were SPAA that are like the 2S6 at 11.0ish, it wouldn’t be much of an issue. Because there isn’t, it can easily cause havoc.

With 29TEs it’s safe to assume Su-39 will stay at 5km+ from the battlefield and at those distances Osa is pretty much on par with 2S6, so I’d say other nations have some chances to fight this thing.

[HondaCivici]

@MotorolaCRO

Su-39 will stay at 5km+

that’s the thing, they don’t. It can be fired 10km+ and hit targets with ease. The OSA may be able to intercept (that’s if they react in time) the KH-29TE but it cannot take out the Su-39 at those ranges.

[MotorolaCRO]

So 2S6 can take out planes at 10km+ of range, where did you get that from ?
It has a maximum range of 10km shown on the stat card.

[I_I_I_I]

skillissue

[HondaCivici]

maximum range does take in account of a plane moving… It is the best case scenario

[MotorolaCRO]

But Osa has the same maximum range as well.

[HondaCivici]

The issue with the OSA is that it has a fixed elevation when it launches it’s missile. This means if it doesn’t detect an AGM in time (which will most likely be the case), it’s missiles will overshoot. In addition it has no guns for last minute interceptions

[MotorolaCRO]

I’m talking about killing the plane at long ranges.

[HondaCivici]

The 2S6 will also struggle heavily at those ranges. The reason why I brought it up is because it’s one of the only spaa at that BR that can intercept agms effeciently. Should’ve clarified that.

[MotorolaCRO]

I’d say Osa has better effective range to engage planes and with it’s radar it should be able to pick up Su-39 before it even launched a missile, which gives it some time to shoot down the missile.

Su-39 will also struggle a lot defending itself against enemy air.

[Commodus6504]

@RavenGuardMarine

Of course we(all nations, not just US/RU) are it’s my job as a CAS/CAP player, to hit the ground and keep the sky clear. Helicopters, of the FNF type can only reasonably be targeted by a jet.

There is no problem with jets chasing helicopters. The low effort required by the jets to reach the enemy heliport makes helicopters obsolete due to the normal number of jets in the air today. No matter whether they use FnF or guided missiles.

Furthermore, there is no chance for the helicopters to defend themselves (if the jet is on the same BR and the player is not brain dead) or to carry out their task.

@RavenGuardMarine

hey can be harassed and targeted by AA in terms of SACLOS helis, but AA is of no real concern to a FNF heli.

Your statement that AA shouldn’t be a danger to helicopters (including FnF) is based on your inexperience with helicopters.

I also have to expose an FnF Helicopter on most maps. The ability to hide behind a tree line may be nice. However, this is of no use if you don’t see anything just above the tree line.

A few maps are suitable for this. Mostly maps with high mountains and little vegetation. On these maps it is particularly easy for opposing jets to catch you.

Helicopters are unnecessary in most situations. Unfortunately that’s how it is.

[HondaCivici]

Not by much and again, engaging targets at those ranges will most likely miss. Majority of spaa sit at spawn which makes them a very easy target.

[MotorolaCRO]

@HondaCivici

Not by much and again, engaging targets at those ranges will most likely miss.

Both aren’t really suited to engage things at 5km+ effectively, but at least Osa will retain speed for much longer as it’s motor burn for a lot longer. Having much better trigger radius helps as well.

@HondaCivici

Majority of spaa sit at spawn which makes them a very easy target.

Some do sit at spawn, but decent players might try to find some hard cover to conceal them from the direction of the plane spawns.
Also, how do TV bombs/missiles behave when losing the lock, do they explode instantly ?

[HondaCivici]

@MotorolaCRO

Both aren’t really suited to engage things at 5km+ effectively,

That’s kinda the point of launching from 10km+. Can’t speak for everyone else, but dodging missiles at those ranges is pretty easy.

@MotorolaCRO

Also, how do TV bombs/missiles behave when losing the lock, do they explode instantly ?

There are two types of lock. A point lock and a tracking lock. In most agms, you can acquire an point lock a lot farther than a tracking lock.

• a point lock is when the agm locks on to the ground (to put it simply, where ever the crosshair was pointed at, it will go to that position). Meaning when you launch, it will go to that point on the ground. However there’s a cool feature after it’s launched. if an agm reaches tracking lock range and a tank happens to be in the same place where the point lock is, it will switch to a tracking lock and follow that tank.

• a tracking lock is self explanatory. If the target smokes itself and the AGM doesn’t have IOG, it will fall out of the sky. If it does have IOG, it will go to the approximate location of where the tank might be. I’m unsure what happens when the agm loses LOS of the target by hiding behind cover. My best guess is that it will switch to a point lock and go the target’s last known position.

AGMs used to explode seconds after it loses lock but they increased the time to 200 seconds or something like that

[MotorolaCRO]

@HondaCivici

That’s kinda the point of launching from 10km+. Can’t speak for everyone else, but dodging missiles at those ranges is pretty easy.

I’ve used 2S6 and at 8km even strike drones can dodge your missile, let alone a plane. This is why I take those maximum range stats with a big grain of salt.

@HondaCivici

I’m unsure what happens when the agm loses LOS of the target by hiding behind cover. My best guess is that it will switch to a point lock and go the target’s last known position.

Yeah I was mostly interested to know what happens in this case.
If it just goes back to point lock, it’s not that hard to break LoS and then just drive away to avoid splash damage.

[UniqueScorpions]

@rainy2000

Every game I have played today has been a full uptier, and in all but 1 game, guess what I have died to in my helicopters? PLANES! Even R-60s weren’t enough to kill the planes

[rainy2000]

@MotorolaCRO

Most SPAAGs (not including M247 and PGZ) can be countered by missiles like Nords.

Those type of aircraft get countered very easily by SAMs, like the Imp Chaparral.
They can also proxy the bullpups if they’re good enough, and if you are not careful.

@MotorolaCRO

Stingers are quite nice against stalling or afk targets, but against something with TV bombs/missiles they don’t stand much of a chance.

IRCCM missiles, like stingers, can catch people off-guard, especially if you are not careful.
They can be dodged fairly easily, sure but they can become more difficult when you are facing away from the missile, instead of going towards it. They also force you to bleed energy, which means that you may not have enough to dodge the second, especially with delta wing aircraft.

@MotorolaCRO

Su-39 ?

Su-39 at 11.3 can do quite a lot of things very well.
Aircraft? R-60Ms and really good radar (Has TWS, SRC PD, and dogfight ACM mode etc) to find and slave R-73s onto planes during dogfights.

Vikhirs can even be used (if they do not realise) in GRB head-ons, as they have proxy and are quite fast.
They can be slaved onto the radar lock as well.
Not really slow, unlike A-10s, so they can catch up to some things if they are not aware.
They aren’t delta wings, so they have fairly good energy retention.
The flaps are great, allowing them to turn fairly well, especially with landing flaps.
The gun is one of the best in the game for anti-tank and anti-aircraft, at least in my opinion:
Great damage, good firerate, APHE, good velocity, good placement of the gun, doesn’t need to spool up. The only thing lacking that I notice a lot is that it only gets 200 rounds.

SPAA?
Just shoot two KH-29TEs and they’re most likely not going to intercept them on time, with them going mach 2.2 and having a HE warhead rather than HEAT / SAPHE with mavericks.

Ground targets?
16 vikhirs and 2 KH-25MLs (for easy one-shots).
Integrated camera is not too shabby, especially for 11.3.
Radar has TWS GMTI, so you can find moving targets (even through smoke) and shoot them with vikhirs (slaved onto the radar) too.

Helicopters?
16 vikhirs, which have great range, speed, and has proxy fuse - which can slave onto your radar too.
KH-29TEs as well if they are not aware.

There are definitely other great 11.3 CAS vehicles, like the Mirage 2000DR-1, but it’s generally not as multi-purpose as the Su-39, at least for large quanitites of enemies.

@MotorolaCRO

ITO is definitely the best of the rest as it was the best AA until Pantsir showed up.

It was the best, but it’s now at 0.3 BR higher than any other SPAA (0.7 for the HQ-17, for example), and is outshined by the Pantsir at its own BR (in most cases).

[rainy2000]

@UniqueScorpions

but didn’t bother to look at recent games.

I could go to replays and find them painstakingly one by one, but I can’t really bother doing that.
I see that you do have around 50 battles with quite a few different countries though, such as in Italy, USA, and Sweden - my bad with this.

@UniqueScorpions

it’s kinda odd you only pointed out Russian aircraft.

Again, not true.

@UniqueScorpions

I could also bring up the A-10C, A-4E, etc

A-4E used to be busted at 8.7, I agree with this.
However, it’s now 9.3 and is just 0.3 BR different with the Ayit, which is significantly better in various aspects.

@UniqueScorpions

Or the Rafael, EF2000, etc etc.

I indeed have:

@rainy2000

On the other hand, the Pantsir can see the Eurofighter and Rafale (12.7s), which the Pantsir has near to no possiblity of defeating.
Those Top Tier aircraft can also fight other air, which makes them invulnerable if played correctly.

@UniqueScorpions

There’s many good or broken aircraft across all the nations in game. Bar Italy pretty much.

Which I agree, and why I have included: SK60B, Scimitar, Ayit, Alpha Jet, F-84G-21, A-4B, Tu-2s, YAK-9K… all from / found in different countries.
Do I need to say more?

@UniqueScorpions

Bar Italy pretty much.

Italy technically has the best Eurofighter and Gripen.
Italy also has the G.91Y, which is a pretty good multi-role at 9.0, at least that’s how I saw it when I played it.

@UniqueScorpions

the 1000kg bombs for me, even with direct hits are super buggy and never do damage, it’s the bomb itself, so I started to use the 500s and had a much better time.

Not really sure what you mean by this… as a lot of bombs also have that same direct hit issue.
The only thing I can say here is that the 5.3 Tu-2S’s 1000KG bomb is much better than the S-44 / S-59 version, due to the higher TNT equivalence: