Random battle, random tank.
The situation of the author :
Königstiger enjoyer who becomes frustrated because he isn’t let alone in his Wittman idoligy.
If you want more historical, you wouldn’t like mecanic issue. (Also, he’s complaining about M41, T92, M50 and M56, but in same battlerating, germans have Kpz M41, Jagdpanzer 4-5 and Spz12-3 LGS)
12 Likes
And what does that have to do with anything? All of these vehicles are categorized incorrectly, yes.
Is that the fault of the thread starter? No!
That would only be the case if he played them in the wrong BRs and not used them in a historically correct way. And you can’t know that unless you catch him doing it.
I’ll give my 3 cents on the issue(full disclaimer: Although I have a decent number of games in both heavies and heat-fs light tanks, I do prefer playing light tanks.)
A lot of the low BR HEAT-FS slingers, such as the M41(US and German,) M56, M50, and jpz 4-5 sacrifice a lot in order to have their HEAT. For example, the M41 is a really big vehicle, the M50 is hard to aim, the M56 has negative armor, and the jpz 4-5 has no turret. The issue comes when you have to fight light tanks in that 7.7-8.0 range. For example, if an IKV-91 is sniping you from a hill 2km away, there’s not much you can do. Same with object 906s, and some of the IFVs.
1 Like
It must be really frustrating for me if I continue to play it, it was just a thing that I noticed and brought up because there was a time when it wasn’t that noticeable. And this has been the case with many of my friends lately as well. And I wouldn’t have brought any statistics into the discussion if JustBaron hadn’t gotten personal. Which I only brought in to show that I can handle the current situation well. And since I also play on other accounts, I also know what it feels like in heavies from other nations. So just stop crying for no reason and just relate to the problem and situation described. And the many battles in Tiger mainly come from a not so pleasant time in War Thunder in which I only completed the activity and of course I did this with my most effective premium in order to get it over with quickly. And the fact that I mentioned the American tanks here only had to do with the fact that they were the first ones when you go through the tech tree. Something I really actively complain about and what I can’t understand is that Abrams got a better reload just because the people were too bad.
1 Like
Historcial Gameplay for Tiger Tanks in 1945 be like
American Cas spawnpoints reduce to 50SP, every Player gets a Free spaded P47 with backups to use…
In the end getting rid of Heat Fs tanks for Histrorical matchmaking will just switch one issue for another, so the next thing after HeatFs light tanks would be a even stronger CAS presence unaliving your Heavy Tanks.
5 Likes
Is it just me or does no P-47 actually have this skin in game?
I’ve always wondered about that. I think it’s weird that they have a loading screen that shows a skin that doesn’t actually exist to my knowledge.
1 Like
whe also had a loading screen with a grey tiger H1 for years but it was not ingame for a long time.
so yeah we have a few of them but understandable since these are just wallpapers and not a “real picture” from the ingame vehicle.
this idea kinda goes out the window when you’re fighting in 3rd person and have the ability to recognize and aim at weakspots in seconds
This is honestly rediculous.
Most of the tanks at WW2 BR that have access to HEATFS have some major drawbacks in return for that shell.
Plus the only thing HEATFS especially at those BRs has going for it is the raw pen value. Post pen is inconsistent at best, ballistics aren’t amazing on many of them, and the shell gets absorbed by trees, bushes, tiny ass fences, and anything else that isnt 100% clear air that any other round type would go straight through. Most of these HEAT firing tanks in that BR range you WANT to carry some kinetic AP rounds with you as well if you can, because they are more consistent.
Meanwhile, ALL the complaints about HEATFS somehow have the uncanny ability to always come from… German mains, its ALWAYS someone complaining about their tiger being penned. Like, ALWAYS. Its never someone whos a US main, or even an RU main. Its always the german players who have played little to no other nations.
Tiger 2 has what is frankly the best gun at its BR, yet one of the examples he complained about is a god damn M50 lol, a tank that would probably have better ballistics if the gunner peeked out of the hatch and physically threw his HEAT grenade at the enemy tanks.
Actually go and play some of those HEATFS vehicles, you’ll realise that the round alone isnt all its cracked up to be.
15 Likes
Damn straight!!, where are all the 76mm Jumbo players complaining about the PT-76? Where all the salty T26E5 players getting wrecked by jpz4-5
3 Likes
It’s always US mains for me, they always complain about everything especially the ones that plays USA and nothing else, everywhere I see is them crying in the Jumbos and Abrams, and they also like to mock Germany main by putting arrows decals pointing directly to the machine gun port and call them blind or something, then the Abrams turret ring tears pretty much could turn the earth into a complete water planet at the rate they are going. I don’t know what game y’all playing and which forum or subforum y’all visiting to find German main or USSR mains complaint more than USA lol
The Abrams is a completely different issue to a completely different topic than this.
Jumbo players troll like that BECAUSE the german mains are that consistently bad. Even I have done it lol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDbumWx4SmU
I cant remember the last time I saw US or frankly even RU mains crying about HEATFS at WW2 BRs though. I’m talking 7.0 and below FYI.
2 Likes
I didn’t know about the arrow thing, thats hilarious
1 Like
Issue is, a 1942 armor can not protect you in the unfortunate situation when you get hit by a 1960s projectile…
Because by the time the 1960s projectile was put in service, the 1942 tank was nothing but an ancient obsolete museum relic.
The “unfortunate situation of being hit by a shell 20+ years into the future” wasn’t really considered when designing a tank’s armor.
Not when your 100-150mm thick plate, great for mid-WW2 standards, is forced to face the 400mm pen shells that literally made armor obsolete decades later until the design of composite armor.
And even less so when, many of the times, those vehicles will also have superior acceleration, top speed, agility, gun handling and profiles. Because apparently “balance” is everyone being able to frontally lolpen everyone regardless of any other parameter, capability or role of a vehicle. Light Tanks must be able to lolpen Heavy Tanks as easily as it happens the other way around because apparently that’s what “balance is”…?
If EVERYTHING is about “muh positioning”, then why take the slow as hell tank that sacrificed its mobility for protection, particularly when said protection is negated by its faster and more agile opponents anyway? What is the point?
There are plenity of vehicles that can pen these tanks from their same era (not talking about historical MM), we should stop pretending that these are needed to make them balanced.
Tiger I, for example, can be penned easily by all:
-77mm guns.
-85mm guns.
-90mm guns.
-100mm guns.
-105mm guns.
-122mm guns.
Even with angling. And, without angling, 76mm guns.
All of these guns are found on its real counterparts. So, tell me… is it really “balance” the reason why this tank ALSO needs to face 400mm pen HEATFS or 530mm pen ATGMs?
And no, before anyone says that “then PT-76 and ASU-57 should be 8.3”, I am not asking for full-historical MM nor to ALL time-travelling vehicles to be put on their historical period BRs because that would not be balanced either. There is no need to jump from one extreme to another.
My point was never about historical accuracy, but about balance. And, while there are exceptions, in most cases, a vehicle facing an opponent that’s 20+ years more advanced leads to balance issues because, again, in MOST (NOT ALL) cases, such timeframe gaps involve many technological advancements that render the 20+ year older vehicle obsolete.
If I had to give PT-76 and M-51 a new BR, it would be 5.7 (from 5.0) and 6.7 (from 6.0), respectively. Which I believe to be quite reasonable, and not the one they would get going by fully historical based BRs, which would indeed place them at too uncomfortable spots.
2 Likes
What’s the problem of the Tiger facing high penetration HEAT if, as you’ve shown, conventional rounds can also penetrate while also dealing higher and more consistent damage (specially APHE)?
6 Likes
Because, when a tank is already penetrated by most of its real counterparts… is there really any need for it to need to face even more tanks that can pen it even more easily?
At that point, it doesn’t feel like the slow and sluggish heavy tank is any more survivable than the faster, smaller and more agile medium and light tanks. So, if its only advantage (armor) is neglected… what’s their point?
1 Like
Probably because the Ratel 20 is an amazingly bad joke. Its only plus is its missiles, that it only has 7 of.
Those tanks are generally even easier to take out, having weak armor or even being open top (or the M56 just being open). Keep in mind the Tiger just has an overpressure APHE round that it can fire every 7.5 to 9.7 seconds.
So while they can take out the a Tiger it’s not like its an unfair matchup.
If anything, with your examples using HEAT against the Tiger is disadvantageous since you put yourself at a higher risk of not killing when compared to all the other cannons that fire conventional AP with enough penetration to take out the Tiger.
And since you added an extra bit while I was writing: even if we were to suddenly remove all HEAT tanks that the Tiger could face, it would still get penetrate by all those conventional AP rounds. So again, what’s the issue if there are more tanks that can penetrate but they do so with less consistent damage?
7 Likes