Also don’t forget about :
7.3/7.7 Cold war bracket for many nations
Forgot to mention about grind to take ammo, KT using for base à Aphe with High penentration.
etc.
This debat could be back in the 1.3 - 3.7 brackets about Early tanks fight Panxer with middle/late ammo (heat) or those M4A4 105. But, it’s better cry on Heavies… at 6.7- 7.7
Exactly. Pass a street corner in Advance of the Rhin, get reckt by Ostwind in front. yeh.
Why? Because tanks like the M18 are at their proper BR. They are fighting the vehicles they were intended to fight and that were intended to fight them. Other vehicles were meant to be fighting Cold War
MBTs, not WWII heavies. That should be taken into account.
Firstly, they were not “intended to fight Cold War MBTs”. Light tanks have multiple different roles to fill, principle among them being reconnaissance, and secondarily fire support for infantry. Their primary weapons are for taking out infantry, light fortifications and light armored vehicles. You could conceivably use them to ambush an MBT, but no-one is sending out a recon squad with AUBLs to go take down an armored division of T-55s. Their HEAT rounds were intended for self defense only.
Secondly, what a vehicle is “intended to fight” has no bearing on it’s effectiveness in game. If we go by this metric, the 1942 M5A1 Stuart, 1943 M8 Scott and 1943 Puma would be at ~5.3 fighting Tigers and 76mm Shermans, and the 1944 Chaffee would be at 6.7 fighting Tiger IIs, etc.
Vehicles are balanced by their actual in game capabilities, not by date of introduction, and for good reason.
Son
Lol what?
Further, HEAT is used as a fill in for HE irl
He’s not wrong, game used to be way more immersive in all modes/BRs
If they aren’t intended to fight tanks, their inability to fight tanks should not be a reason to lower their BR. It’s like saying the T95 should be at reserve tier because it’s not as fast as an M18.
You can always tell this is the case. It is always “my heavy tank should not face this tank”. You never seen “my cold war tank should face stronger tanks”
Tanks are intended to fight with as large of an advantage as possible over the enemy tech.
I feel like the graphics kind of helped ruin that. I feel like the shading was darker and more atmospheric.
As I have already said, where they land BR wise is entirely down to how they perform in game. And they perform fine in game at their current BRs (mostly). If you want to convince anyone that they need to go up, start by showing that they are in some way overperforming at their current BRs.
This false equivalence is just comical. At no point did anyone say anything close to that, with the possible exception of those saying that these vehicles have the same pen as something like the M48 Patton and thus they deserve to be the same BR as the Patton, disregarding all of the other differences.
Their performance in game is fighting tanks, which they weren’t intended to do. It’s a pointless reference. If anything, it’s an example of why certain vehicles shouldn’t be added to the game.
I agree, a vehicle’s intended role IRL is a pointless reference. What matters is how it functions in game.
And by and large, all of these HEAT equipped vehicles function at an acceptable level.
None are meta defining, and, frankly, most of them aren’t even very good.
But at the same time, they’re functional, they add variety to lineups that would otherwise sorely be lacking it, and they allow the implementation of historically interesting vehicles that would otherwise be impossible.
You have failed to prove that they need to be moved or removed. If you want to actually convince anyone, start there.
The fact that a light tank can’t easily take down a heavy tank is actually good balance, so I don’t see any problem with it. The fact that you had to fire multiple times to destroy it just means you successfully secured a favorable position and managed to neutralize the King Tiger. You ultimately succeeded in destroying it, so what exactly are you dissatisfied about? Your argument is basically like demanding, "Give the AUBL an 88mm gun.
If that’s the case, then all the more reason not to match them against Tiger and Panther and IS-2. Those are wartime heavy tanks, not MBTs.Besides, are you fighting matches with only light tanks? Your team has plenty of medium and heavy tanks as well, and the light tank’s proper role is to support them, right? Do you want to use light tanks as tank destroyers? From a game balance perspective, I’d have to say that’s a serious mistake.
If they aren’t even that good, it would make no difference to move man up in BR where they still won’t be very good, but they won’t be controversial.
Good news! War Thunder is not a 1:1 simulation of real life tank combat.
It’s gameplay is somewhat based on real life tank encouters, but with a much heavier focus on tank versus tank combat than any engagement in real life, which restricts niche vehicle’s effectiveness compared to IRL.
But, since we’re in control, we can put tanks that were IRL limited in that capability at whatever tier they need in order to perform decently well, and not be a lead weight on their team’s chances of winning.
If you want to LARP, get on Gaijin’s case about actually updating Ground Sim.
So you want to move up a bunch of decent, mediocre or terrible vehicles (mostly decent to mediocre) up to BRs where they will be objectively terrible vehicles that tank their team’s winrates, all so you can play your heavy tanks as the completely impenetrable bunkers you imagine them as?
Sigh… right I see. Well then, let’s get back to talking about Realistic Battle.
What would make them worse at higher BRs? Their armor would be just as useless. Their mobility would still be their strength. They can still flank and scout.
Because they’d be up against other vehicles that do their job better? You know, the whole point of the BR system?
The AUBL would be up against the Ru-251 (Smaller, faster, better armored).
The PBV 501 (BMP-1 without ATGMs) would be up against the BMP-1 with ATGMs.
Then you have stuff like the IKV-90 (90mm HEAT with an LRF), Object 906 (85mm HEAT/APHE with a full stabilizer and an autoloader), the various rat tanks, etc. Even things like the Leopard 1 (As fast or faster than most of them, but with 105mm APDS and much better armor). These are just a handful off the top of my head, but all of them drastically outperform the various low tier HEAT slingers.
So what? The M4 A3 76 is at the same BR as the Panther. The T 32E1 is at the same BR as the M103.