You are getting a bit picky here - yes, it uses HEAT rounds - that have 400mm pen
Well I didn’t want to spend too much time on it - I think I made my point with the ones I listed.
If only most of the maps accommodated this. Many don’t.
And… Heat / Heat-FS are good at long distance too, as they suffer no range penalties.
The point is, there are many (cold-war era) vehicles that pack a great punch (pen) but are far more mobile and sneaky than the Tiger 2, which counts for a lot in RGB.
AMLs would have been a better pick than the M-51 for your requirements, even if we include HEAT as apart of the HEATFS group just for the speed requirement.
and there are TDs with as much pen on their HEAT, some of that cold war HEAT, as the AUBL as low as 3.0 though those are TDs so meh
Anyways: my take is that HEATFS is a WW2 era shell that was only found amongst the infantry. Don’t believe me?
Tanks only really got HEATFS until after the war was over
I was replying to Nowel’s comment about most heat-slingers being tank destroyers.
So I listed non-tank destroyers. That’s all that part of the post was meant for.
This I agree on, Gaijin’s continued attempts to shrink map size and turn them into TDM sucks.
Technically, sure, but HEAT also has pretty terrible post-pen compared to APHE and most of the heat vehicles aren’t as stable as the Tiger II. They give up almost everything else (armor and crew count included- with most of these vehicles, you only need to KO two usually close-together crew to destroy the vehicle) to be fast, sneaky, and have high pen…
oh i know
that’s why I said that too
Lack of APHE fusing is primarily an issue for rushed shots. Any vehicle with HEATFS at the tier that has armor thin enough not to fuze APHE is also cramped enough that a roughly center mass shot will consistently oneshot it.
That’s also not mentioning that all of them are very vulnerable to .50 cals (The AUBL/C13 is actually vulnerable to .30s as well), meaning that you don’t even need to waste a long reload on them in most tanks that have a long reload.
The only vehicles that are both weakly armored enough not to fuze APHE and roomy enough for precise aim to be required are the 155mm howitzers. But that’s a seperate argument.
That’s very interesting. Can you show me on the stat card where it shows fuse sensitivity in relation to aim time?
Apparently this is new information to you, but you don’t actually need the shell to blow up to kill someone. This is something everyone who’s used British tanks could tell you.
All you need to do is treat your round like it’s solid shot against anything thin enough not to fuze. Accordingly, you aim for ammo, or a spot where the shot will hit most of the crew in one line.
Again, the tanks with HEATFS and armor thin enough not to fuze APHE all have super cramped crew layouts. Meaning that all you really need to do is just take the time to lineup a center mass shot, and to not take stupid shots like aiming for the troop carrying compartment of BMPs/Ratels/etc.
Now you’re just moving the goal post.
You posit that HEATFS equipped light tanks “Tank APHE all the time because the round just sails through with zero post pen damage”.
I counter that this only affects rushed shots as even an unfuzed APHE round is still more than capable of killing or completely disabling these light tanks due to their super cramped layouts (And vulnerability to MGs).
You then claim I moved the goalposts.
Make it make sense.
Yes, and the issue with thinly armored vehicles not taking damage reliably has been an issue with this game for as long as I can remember. Whole break was a solution to that problem, but people complained about it so it got removed. I am aware you can easily kill lightly armored vehicles. You can easily killed heavily armored vehicles as well. Thick armor reliably fuses APHE shells. Thin armor does not reliably fuse APHE shells.
You are right, but when people complain about weakly armored vehicles eating shells, no-one was talking about the AUBL or the Eland.
It was tanks like the M18 principly, as that was large enough that a somewhat quickly aimed shell could easily pass through a section of the hull without killing everything critical, leaving it free to fire back and/or pull into cover before you can return fire.
Nowadays, the most problematic version of this is easily the various 155mm SPGs at the tier, but this is a seperate argument from the one in this thread, which is strictly about HEATFS existing at WW2 tiers. I do actually have issues with how these vehicles are placed, principly the Panzerhaubitzen due to it’s combination of an autloader, LRF, large size and armor weak enough not to fuze APHE.
It’s all of them. It’s not some of them. It’s all of them. If a tank with heat is going to be put at a much lower BR because its armor is it should die extraordinarily easily. There’s no other argument for it being lower than it should in that case.
Firstly, why would that be the only argument? HEATFS has a lot of other downsides compared to APHE, especially high pen APHE.
Secondly, they do die easily. It is unironically just a skill issue if you’re having trouble killing these vehicles. Again, any vehicle that’s light enough for APHE not to fuze is also light enough for a .50 cal to rip right through them, and every vehicle with a reload long enough to worry about followup shots has a .50, apart from the base model IS-2 and the Conway.
But you don’t even need to do that. You just need to take a second to aim properly. If having to do that is such a massive problem, then I guess the entire British line needs a flat 1.0 BR decrease at least to make up for it.
I want every person in here complaining about HEAT-FS at rank 3/4 to please list all the cold war vehicles using HEAT-FS that you think are overpowered… there arent any. I think you’re just mad you got penetrated in a heavy tank.
Have you ever played an AUBL? You might as well be throwing rocks at the damn thing it literally takes multiple heat rounds to the ammo of another tank to det the ammo lol.
EDIT: The king tiger has 13mm less penn the HeatFS round on the aubl and gets overpressure which the AUBL does not lmao
While I agree with you the German walker bulldog is alright, but the Japanese STA and Type 61 are fantastic tanks but they are also the only ones and the flipside to them is everyone can punch straight through them so its more of a ranged glass cannon, but thats it all the other low tier heatfs slingers kind of suck.
Sure, but not overpowered. Their relative mid mobility + no armor makes them balanced, as you said.
